To Execute or Not to Execute, that is the question

Matah Moore

Matah Moore

Member
I was curious to others' opinions on whether they condone the death penalty or not. Tennessee just executed (or shall I saw tried to execute the first woman in 200 years) but botched it up. As far as I know she's still alive on life support in the hospital. The crime she was involved in was horrendous. Personally (and I know it will never happen), I believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I think if people who inflicted pain and death on their victims would have to face the same fate that they inflicted on their victims, that the crime rate would slow down immensely. The same with animal abusers. I wish that people who abuse animals would face the same neglect and pain they inflict on animals.
 
I am opposed to capital punishment, not because I believe that all of these people deserve to live, but because the justice system makes mistakes, prosecutors are too often motivated by convictions rather than justice, and it's too late to say "oops" after an execution has taken place. In reference to the woman you're referring to, she committed a horrible crime, but she was eighteen then, and while I don't believe that 18-year-olds should be excused or exempted from punishment, it seems pointless to execute her decades later.

When it comes to those who rape or murder children, you won't find me standing outside the prison protesting their execution, and if they are truly guilty, the world will be a better place without them in it, but I remain opposed to the death penalty in principle, largely for the reason given above. The justice system isn't always just.
 
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I am a proponent of capital punishment. I also believe that prisoners are allowed to languish far too long at taxpayer expense.

And the irony of the woman in Tennessee being on life support. Really? Are they getting her patched up to try to kill her again? I heard a bit of the story as I was passing through the den earlier. Something about doctors and nurses not being willing to participate in putting someone to death, so the IV needle wasn't positioned correctly...?

Since many states now have the assisted dying thing there should be plenty of health care professionals that are fine with assisting in carrying out death sentences to make them more humane.
 
I\m opposed to capital punishment. As far as taxpayer expense, life in prison is way cheaper than all the money paid to the lawyers on capital punishment cases. I don't think the dollars are enough to matter but if you wanna save money, get rid of the death penalty. Plus, I much rather pay for the proverbial "3 hots and a cot" than millions in legal fees.

And in states that have MAID (medical aid in dying) laws, one of the requirements is that the person be able to self-administer the lethal medication.
 
Hoot Crawford said:
And in states that have MAID (medical aid in dying) laws, one of the requirements is that the person be able to self-administer the lethal medication.
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True. But my point was more that if a doctor has no objection to assisting suicide (in whatever fashion), then he'd probably not have a moral objection to inserting a lethal injection IV. Though he'd likely not push the button to deliver the lethal injection dose; not sure how that would mesh with "first, do no harm."
 
I am 200% for the death penalty provided it is undeniable the crime was committed. This was all part of the Mosaic Law in the Old Testament.

This female in question admitted guilt, but has never once apologized to the family of the girl whose life she took using a box cutter, some other sharp implements, hitting her with a rock, then walking out of the wooded area with her “boyfriend “, leaving the girl to die.

That said, this is the SECOND TIME THIS YEAR the appointed doctors and nurses have botched a death sentence. That person had also admitted guilt and also sat on death row for many years.

I don’t know if he is still living or not. I do know this:

1. If the death penalty is going to be instituted, somebody had d-a-m-n well better learn how to perform the procedure. A vet could do a better job than these a-holes.

2. I am absolutely sick to death of the DETAILED accounts ALL of the local news stations are spewing forth. I am glad I have “157 channels and nothing to watch” because those nothing to watch channels are a saving grace until this all dies down. I also record the news so I can watch only the weather and the one or two decent news snippets they offer up.
 
I'm guessing that the Tennessee Governor will not allow another attempt at a lethal injection for this woman (assuming she survives). Another execution scheduled for later this year has already been deferred.
 
I'm in favor of the death penalty. Not so much for revenge or punishment, but it eliminates the possibility of more legal BS to overturn a conviction. And one even better advantage: An executed criminal has never re-offended. The safety of others should be a priority.
But I'm not in favor of how it's carried out. Most people on death row die of natural causes. And we pay for their food & medical care during the 30-40 years.
Drugs should not be the method. A firing squad is much cheaper & more reliable.
 
Oh Tony , youve just sent shivers down my spine.
An ancestor of mine, a female , was executed by firing squad for helping people.
They actually said afterwards that it should never have happened and they would never execute a woman again in this manner.

We don't have capital punishment here in England and I'm pleased that we don't.
The last woman to be hanged here in the 60's was Ruth Ellis. She recently got pardoned.
 
A few years ago, in S. Carolina, there was some kind of shortage of the drugs used for execution. They had to cancel a few that were scheduled. Another article said they were short on funds for both drugs and firing squad items, so they were postponing executions & the lawyers were working on stopping them.
I wrote to the governor & offered to donate four rifles and the ammunition. They must have thought I wasn't serious; they didn't respond.

South Carolina Department of Corrections resolved its lethal injection drug shortage in 2023 by acquiring a supply of the sedative pentobarbital after passing a shield law to keep suppliers anonymous. [1]
Background on the Shortage
    • The Pause: South Carolina did not carry out any executions after 2011 because its previous three-drug combination stocks expired in 2013. [1, 2]
    • Pharmaceutical Blocks: Drug makers refused to sell new supplies to the state because corrections officials could not guarantee the anonymity of the manufacturers or the execution team. [1, 2]
    • Stalled Executions: Death warrants, such as the one for Richard Bernard Moore in 2020, were repeatedly stayed or delayed because the state explicitly stated it could not obtain the required drugs (pentobarbital, pancuronium bromide, and potassium chloride). [1, 2]
 
Tony, I've got to ask the question , donating the rifles and ammunition in order for executions to be carried out is one thing...
But could you actually do the execution and be the one to pull the trigger ?
 
Just in the last 25 years, more than a thousand people convicted of murder later had their convictions overturned, many of them because of new evidence or advancements in DNA evidence proving them to be innocent or that their guilt could not be proven. Had these people been sentenced to death and had these sentences been carried out, the State would have murdered over a thousand innocent people. In most jurisdictions, the efficiency of a prosecutor is determined by convictions, not having served justice. A skilled prosecutor, backed by near-unlimited tax dollars, up against a court-appointed defense attorney with a high caseload and small budget, can convict an innocent man, and some of them will do so knowingly if they believe they can win.
 
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As I stated above, the charges have to be undeniable for an execution to be meted out.

Sight the cold blooded murder of KY state trooper Hayden Phillips a few days back. He made a stop for an expired license plate and was shot twice by the driver who has a violent rap sheet a mile long.

It was all caught on camera. I suppose the consensus is that Branch should be cared for on death row for decades so people forget what he did, then picket on his behalf to save him from meeting the same fate that he brought upon a young trooper who was a father of three young children.

fox17.com

Tennessee man charged in death of Kentucky state trooper has large criminal history

The man accused of shooting and killing a Kentucky State Police trooper is charged with murder of a first responder, and will remain behind bars.
fox17.com fox17.com

If there is no question about the charges, there should be no question about the punishment…..l..
 
Liz Adams said:
Tony, I've got to ask the question , donating the rifles and ammunition in order for executions to be carried out is one thing...
But could you actually do the execution and be the one to pull the trigger ?
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That wasn't my my chosen profession, so, no. The only time I could ever shoot someone is if they were trying to hurt or kill me or a loved one. I've only come close to that twice in my 73 years; both situations involved attempted break ins in my house. In both situations, at gunpoint, I gave the intruders the option of fleeing, which they took. But if they didn't, I wouldn't hesitate.
 
Connie Bennett said:
As I stated above, the charges have to be undeniable for an execution to be meted out.

Sight the cold blooded murder of KY state trooper Hayden Phillips a few days back. He made a stop for an expired license plate and was shot twice by the driver who has a violent rap sheet a mile long.

It was all caught on camera. I suppose the consensus is that Branch should be cared for on death row for decades so people forget what he did, then picket on his behalf to save him from meeting the same fate that he brought upon a young trooper who was a father of three young children.

fox17.com

Tennessee man charged in death of Kentucky state trooper has large criminal history

The man accused of shooting and killing a Kentucky State Police trooper is charged with murder of a first responder, and will remain behind bars.
fox17.com fox17.com

If there is no question about the charges, there should be no question about the punishment…..l..
Click to expand...
The result of our revolving-door justice system. We cut costs of inmate upkeep by repeatedly paroling habitual criminals; especially when they age because their medical costs increase. Besides saving money on their medical care etc. everyone involved profits - attorneys, judges bail bondsmen. Some examples:
O.J. Simpson was sentenced to 33 years for armed robbery & kidnapping (after getting away with two murders). He was released after 8.5 years.

Bill Cosby's conviction for drugging & raping women was overturned & he was quickly released. At his age, his medical costs would be too high.
Two of the Manson murderers were released from prison - Leslie Van Houten, who participated in at least two murders was released in 2023.
Lynette Fromme was released in 2009 (she attempted to kill President Ford)

Another example of "Money Talks:"
Sean Combs is scheduled to be released from federal prison on January 21, 2028. His release date has shifted multiple times, but federal database records currently project this early 2028 timeline.
 
Tony Nathanson said:
That wasn't my my chosen profession, so, no. The only time I could ever shoot someone is if they were trying to hurt or kill me or a loved one. I've only come close to that twice in my 73 years; both situations involved attempted break ins in my house. In both situations, at gunpoint, I gave the intruders the option of fleeing, which they took. But if they didn't, I wouldn't hesitate.
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I think most of us would feel like that.
My sister was raped at knifepoint in her way home from work .
They caught him and locked him up for 7 years , but we had to wait 9 months until the trial.
I spent those 9 months planning where I could get a gun from to shoot him in court.
I didn't get a gun and when I saw him in the courtroom all my anger left me and all I felt was pity because he was a pathetic figure of a man.

Another instance was my first husband's niece was murdered by her partner.
She was 27 with a 3 year old daughter.

The shock is great .
However I still wouldn't have felt right about either of these men being put to death.

We all have our own thoughts and feelings about such matters. And it's not a case of one is right and one is wrong.
 
Liz Adams said:
I think most of us would feel like that.
My sister was raped at knifepoint in her way home from work .
They caught him and locked him up for 7 years , but we had to wait 9 months until the trial.
I spent those 9 months planning where I could get a gun from to shoot him in court.
I didn't get a gun and when I saw him in the courtroom all my anger left me and all I felt was pity because he was a pathetic figure of a man.

Another instance was my first husband's niece was murdered by her partner.
She was 27 with a 3 year old daughter.

The shock is great .
However I still wouldn't have felt right about either of these men being put to death.

We all have our own thoughts and feelings about such matters. And it's not a case of one is right and one is wrong.
Click to expand...
Your sister's situation reminded me of two similar crimes where the victim's parents got justice for their kids:

On April 2, 1993, Daniel Mark Driver was fatally shot in a courtroom in Sacramento, California, United States, by Elena Starr Nesler, after Driver had been accused of molesting her son.[1] The case was reported on throughout the United States,[2] and the Associated Press wrote that the incident "sparked a national debate about vigilantism".[1]

Killing of Daniel Mark Driver​

Nesler made headlines on April 2, 1993, when she killed Daniel Mark Driver[2] - who had been accused of sexually abusing five boys, including Nesler's then-six-year-old son, William - in the courtroom of the Jamestown Justice Court. She fired five shots into Driver's head, killing him instantly. Driver had previous convictions for child molestation.[3]

According to Jon Thurber of the Los Angeles Times, the finding that Nesler was under the influence of methamphetamine when she killed Driver caused the "sympathetic portrait" of herself portrayed by her defense team to "erode".[2] She served 3 1/2 years in jail as her case wound its way through trial and appeal before she pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter. Judge William Polley sentenced her to 10 years in prison, describing the murder of Driver as "nothing more than an execution."[4] Nesler was released from prison in 1997.

In the case below, the father received no prison time; only probation:
 
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