Environmental Issues

Ken Anderson

Ken Anderson

Greeter
Staff member

I had posted this in the weather thread as a response to some of the discussion there, but decided that I didn't want to have to ban myself for taking a weather thread off-topic, given that the environment and weather aren't the same thing. This video takes a look at various environmental activist campaigns throughout history, but does not take an anti-environmental stance (he goes too far in that direction than I would agree with). Any discussion of environmental issues, environmental activism, and so on, is on-topic here. Discussions do not have to be restricted to the topics discussed in the video, but I think you might find it interesting.
 
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The video was interesting and I agree with a lot of it. It has long been a "thing" with the Left to judge people on intentions rather than results. The Right tends to do the opposite and judge people by results rather than intentions. That makes Leftist politicians, such as Mamdani, AOC, and Bernie Sanders, more electable than those more focused on results rather than intentions. If we returned to the days of reusable bottles and such there would be a lot less litter and much less stuff in landfills
 
Don Alaska said:
The video was interesting and I agree with a lot of it. It has long been a "thing" with the Left to judge people on intentions rather than results. The Right tends to do the opposite and judge people by results rather than intentions. That makes Leftist politicians, such as Mamdani, AOC, and Bernie Sanders, more electable than those more focused on results rather than intentions. If we returned to the days of reusable bottles and such there would be a lot less litter and much less stuff in landfills
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Run the numbers please and not just in your comfort zone.
 
Don Alaska said:
The video was interesting and I agree with a lot of it. It has long been a "thing" with the Left to judge people on intentions rather than results. The Right tends to do the opposite and judge people by results rather than intentions. That makes Leftist politicians, such as Mamdani, AOC, and Bernie Sanders, more electable than those more focused on results rather than intentions. If we returned to the days of reusable bottles and such there would be a lot less litter and much less stuff in landfills
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Money is what makes changes not benefit for humanity.
Climate has always changed. I know my gas burning car did not cause the end of the ice age. It is hot now but could be because of the destruction of the SA rain forests and other misuse of land, plants and animals.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/2070846520136479224

There are many replies pointing out that "this is happening for decades. All old bridges in the Netherlands are cooled when temperature is above 23/24 Celcius. This is what they call bad engineering and maintenance. has noting to do with climate change."

The "extreme heat" temperature on the day that X comment was made was 77°F. These people are getting paid to try to destroy our lives.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2070974082615767197
 
All of us are guilty to some degree. Drops make an ocean. But instead of looking at every angle and coming up with solutions the most squeaky wheel gets the attention.
We have geothermal and natural gas non vented fireplace which we heat the house at minus F degrees, insulation out of the xyz including garage and garage doors, garage has heat and a/c, specialty windows, … . I refuse to freeze and SO refuses to bake. Bake as in overheat. I will not wash ziplocks that had meat in them!
Hugging trees? A producing garden in a snooty neighborhood. Three Armenian Cucumbers and a loaf of whole wheat with bagel everything topping just went across the street. I took in six tattered American flags two of them Bettie’s for repair. Well, SO knows how to use a sewing machine and I like the huge flag the neighbor flies appropriately. My stuff does not go to waste with his kids and he will get three flags back for me to enjoy.
What are y’all doing?
 
Marie Miller said:
All of us are guilty to some degree. Drops make an ocean. But instead of looking at every angle and coming up with solutions the most squeaky wheel gets the attention.
We have geothermal and natural gas non vented fireplace which we heat the house at minus F degrees, insulation out of the xyz including garage and garage doors, garage has heat and a/c, specialty windows, … . I refuse to freeze and SO refuses to bake. Bake as in overheat. I will not wash ziplocks that had meat in them!
Hugging trees? A producing garden in a snooty neighborhood. Three Armenian Cucumbers and a loaf of whole wheat with bagel everything topping just went across the street. I took in six tattered American flags two of them Bettie’s for repair. Well, SO knows how to use a sewing machine and I like the huge flag the neighbor flies appropriately. My stuff does not go to waste with his kids and he will get three flags back for me to enjoy.
What are y’all doing?
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But what are we guilty of? There are no ill-effects whose measurement I trust. In my region, the stores have started charging for plastic bags and are giving paper bags away for free. Not all that long ago they stopped using paper bags altogether and forced us to use the plastic ones.

Bill Gates was vehemently against nuclear power until it was the only viable energy source from some of his data canters, and now he is a big fan.

Just stop. We are not that stupid.

edit to add: Not directed at you, @Marie Miller
 
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John Brunner said:
But what are we guilty of? There are no ill-effects whose measurement I trust. In my region, the stores have started charging for plastic bags and are giving paper bags away for free. Not all that long ago they stopped using paper bags altogether and forced us to use the plastic ones.

Bill Gates was vehemently against nuclear power until it was the only viable energy source from some of his data canters, and now he is a big fan.

Just stop. We are not that stupid.

edit to add: Not directed at you, @Marie Miller
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John, we buy packaged goods, take away food ( not me), load vegetables/fruit into plastic bags, use trash bags, … .
Bill Gates should mind a lot of his projects.
 
Marie Miller said:
John, we buy packaged goods, take away food ( not me), load vegetables/fruit into plastic bags, use trash bags, … .
Bill Gates should mind a lot of his projects.
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I was a long-time member of of Nadar's Center for Science in the Public Interest back in the 80s-90s. Lots of good information through those guys (Nutrition Action Health Letter.) As such, I was an early adopter of canvas shopping bags they sold. They just get too funky to be reused. I want to put my produce in something clean. I guess you're point is landfills and stuff that does not degrade. I try to reuse boxes and bags, and most stores have a Recycle bin for their shopping bags (but I don't know if the net energy consumed/saved is worth it.)

I think the appliance industry needs a long, hard look. We all know what's happened to the lifecycle of washers, dryers and refrigerators. The problem is that we all buy based on price, plus I don't know how a business can survive if their product is only purchased every couple of decades (or longer.) It was different when serving an exploding (Boomer) population. They gotta make money or they cannot exist to make the products we need.

Regarding "Climate Change"...there's too much BS for me to believe any of it.
 
John Brunner said:
I was a long-time member of of Nadar's Center for Science in the Public Interest back in the 80s-90s. Lots of good information through those guys (Nutrition Action Health Letter.) As such, I was an early adopter of canvas shopping bags they sold. They just get too funky to be reused. I want to put my produce in something clean. I guess you're point is landfills and stuff that does not degrade. I try to reuse boxes and bags, and most stores have a Recycle bin for their shopping bags (but I don't know if the net energy consumed/saved is worth it.)

I think the appliance industry needs a long, hard look. We all know what's happened to the lifecycle of washers, dryers and refrigerators. The problem is that we all buy based on price, plus I don't know how a business can survive if their product is only purchased every couple of decades (or longer.) It was different when serving an exploding (Boomer) population. They gotta make money or they cannot exist to make the products we need.

Regarding "Climate Change"...there's too much BS for me to believe any of it.
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John, I have had LL Bean canvas bags with long handles since prior to Desert Storm. During Covid commissaries refused using them. I quit going there.
My KitchenAid has been in use daily for almost 30 years.
Washer was replaced about 15 years ago. Dryer is at least 25 but all it handles is towels, pillow covers and liners.
 
I don't buy anything retail any more. I go to St Vincent D Paul for recycled clothes and whatever. My washer is refurbished cuz I won't buy anything with a mother board or anything smart. I bring plastic bags to aldi's so people can use them if they don't have bags. I use aldi's boxes. I share egg cartons with neighbor who has a small farmer's market.
Our energy company was snooping around our neighborhood for info on our house's efficiency. Mine is so tight we had to buy and air exchanger to keep our window frames from rotting.
My vehicles are all old. I don't by new and haven't for decades. Dave said he will be buried in his. Saves on the cost of a casket.
 
When we lived in Texas I tried recycling various things. Here in SW KS, they look at you like your nuts.
I have to use an inhaler since 2017. there is not place to put them except in the trash.That is a lot from one person.
do the math then multiply that by national average of folks on inhalers. IF all that is in the ground, how can anyone
claim it does not affect the environment? I have been downsizing my use of batteries, as they alone are a big health concern.
 
Mary Stetler said:
I don't buy anything retail any more. I go to St Vincent D Paul for recycled clothes and whatever. My washer is refurbished cuz I won't buy anything with a mother board or anything smart. I bring plastic bags to aldi's so people can use them if they don't have bags. I use aldi's boxes. I share egg cartons with neighbor who has a small farmer's market.
Our energy company was snooping around our neighborhood for info on our house's efficiency. Mine is so tight we had to buy and air exchanger to keep our window frames from rotting.
My vehicles are all old. I don't by new and haven't for decades. Dave said he will be buried in his. Saves on the cost of a casket.
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I've handed out bags to the uninitiated at ALDI, too. I have a grocery carrier I bought some years ago and I keep it in my car, stuffed with plastic bags. Some cities/counties here have started requiring that stores levy a tax of 5¢ for plastic ("It's for the children"), so when I'm in those locales, I take my own bags with me.
 
good afternoon to all-

I am personally opposed to any and all kinds of plastic bagging and packaging.

Here on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, idiots who bring bags on their boats too often toss the ice bags or other plastic stuff into the water. this floats away, and sea turtles find it, and to them, plastic looks just like a jellyfish- which is sea turtle candy. The sea turtle eats the plastic bag and in a few days, the sea turtle dies.

I dislike plastic bags and other packaging a great deal.

you all be safe and keep well- Ed
 
It's interesting how selective we can be when it comes to the concept of survival of the fittest. I would think an evolutionist might consider that only the smarter turtles will survive to produce offspring.

As for plastic bags, I worked for a paper bag company that shut its five paper bag plants down because the cause of that day was saving trees, and plastic bags would help to save trees.

As for causes in general, those who have made a career out of pressing for a particular cause would be putting themselves out of work if they actually succeeded.
 
Ken Anderson said:
It's interesting how selective we can be when it comes to the concept of survival of the fittest. I would think an evolutionist might consider that only the smarter turtles will survive to produce offspring.

As for plastic bags, I worked for a paper bag company that shut its five paper bag plants down because the cause of that day was saving trees, and plastic bags would help to save trees.

As for causes in general, those who have made a career out of pressing for a particular cause would be putting themselves out of work if they actually succeeded.
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And I gave up on Tinker AFB when the commissary made us return canvas bags to the car and use flimsy plastic.
 
"It's interesting how selective we can be when it comes to the concept of survival of the fittest. I would think an evolutionist might consider that only the smarter turtles will survive to produce offspring."

Good evening to all- Ken, please excuse me, but this statement shows a very limited understanding of "survival of the fittest".

Intelligence of sea turtles has nothing to do with how they die from eating a foreign substance introduced into their ecological home in great abundance. Sea turtles have evolved to eat stuff that looks like jellyfish, and for millions of years this worked fine. But when folks started dumping plastics into the ocean, it created a totally new and deadly situation. If the plastic dumping continues, there won't be any sea turtles left to "evolve."

And I would be so very grateful to be "out of work" if people would stop dumping plastics into the Gulf of Mexico and other ocean waters- and by the way, I have written articles on this topic, so I would be happy to not be able to write about this again.

you all be safe and keep well- Ed
 
Ed Delabama said:
Good evening to all- Ken, please excuse me, but this statement shows a very limited understanding of "survival of the fittest".
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Only those with limited social skills wouldn't understand a joke when they heard one. However, even jokes often have substance. Smarter turtles would come to realize the dangers involved in eating plastic, and the smarter turtles might learn to distinguish a jellyfish from a grocery bag. They would go on to produce offspring that could be expected to have a higher level of intelligence. At the basic levels, that's what evolution is all about.
 
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