The Two-Income Trap

Those 'rights' went from 'the hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world ' to rocking the Casbah 'get a job, work for the babysitters raising your kids, plus expense of working outside the home.
I remember when I took my kids father to court for child support, the judge ask me why I don't get a job, I told him I had a job, called being a mother raising my kids .
I came home early found babysitter and her boyfriend sitting outside smoking pot and my baby with a nasty diaper and diaper rash. Nurseries were too expensive and those babysitter's you could afford weren't always qualified for child care.
Men were no longer held responsible for their kids, like today and the proof is in the pudding, our prisons are full much of our youth is on drugs or irresponsible. Not all of course but many.
 
There are far too many variables in situations to be making blanket assumptions. For one thing, the divorce rate skyrocketed in the 70's-80's forcing women to go to work to support themselves and their children. So working outside the home was not so much a frivolous decision but a necessity.

I worked after my children started school because I wanted to. Staying home all day can be drudgery and it is somewhat lonely, especially when the children are in school. I was also divorced for a time and had no choice but to support myself.

Of course this thread isn't really about the breakdown of family values, but about how having 2 incomes has changed financial dynamics. Whether a household has a single income or several, it all comes down to money management and living within your means.

Edit: As far as the cost of housing, that is directly attributed to the costs of labor, materials, taxes, insurance, location, etc. There are MANY factors that affect the cost of housing, and I don't believe that a 2-income household has anything to do with it, other than people take on more debt than they can easily afford.
 
Great conversation.

Let's not forget what we have adopted and imposed upon ourselves throughout the years. Take for instance my grandparents, they lived in the country, had no electricity, at least not at the start, no running water, no natural gas heat, no telephone, not even transportation. I'm not suggesting that was an ideal or wonderful life for them, but that's what they could afford and how it was.

Moving forward, people looked for more modern conveniences, homes became bigger with modern upgrades that reflected more modern day living such as electricity, natural gas, telephones, running water, and when one vehicle parked in the driveway was no longer enough, a second, even a third mode of transportation was acquired, then came the toys, campers, trailers, and boats, but exactly how to pay for all of this.

Well, back to my grandparents generation, they didn't live with debt, they lived within their means, today however, debt is living, and from all that my husband and I see, the more - the merrier. People living paycheck to paycheck, one payday away from the soup-line.

I was a fulltime stay-at-home mom and housewife, sure, we took a financial hit, but overall I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. I got to enjoy all the steps and stages of my children growing, then once in school, I was always home in case someone came down with something in school, the door was unlocked, the lights on, the heat on (cold winter months), and mom was home to take care of them. Today kids run amok, stepping into dark and empty homes, nothing prepared in the way of proper meals, a lack of family intervention and one-on-one time, less-and-less meals at the table where everyone is gathered around, any why? Well, because mom and dad both work outside the home and at the end of the day it comes at the expense of the poor children.

I grocery shop weekly, sometimes twice a week, and I watch mothers pushing their shopping carts around at the supermarket and big-box stores with two jumbo packs of disposable diapers stuffed into their carts. Meals prepared from scratch and at home isn't priority anymore, because with banks and lenders handing out money like they do nowadays, there's fast-food restaurants and meals out.

World travel today knocks both me and my husband off our feet, we've never been on a world trip anywhere, yet young families today enjoy new homes, two new vehicles sitting in the driveway, and trips around the world, and all while raising young and growing children. I for one always think to myself, how in the world are they doing it? How are they affording it all, then it dawns on me, yes, borrowing and living in a pool of debt.

When my children were little, pretty much everyone I knew (family wise), the women of the house stayed home to raise the kids and hold the fort down. We all had a long row of diapers and rubber pants hanging on our clotheslines (no Pampers or Huggies, and yes, they were around), we cooked and baked from scratch, made homemade baby food and formula, used glass baby bottles, not the disposable liner style plastic bottles of today, second-hand and hand-me-down baby furniture and baby clothes was common, and most everyone that we knew still relied solely on a single vehicle to get them around, and not a brand spanking new one either.

Absolutely adamant I was that my kids weren't going to be raised in a daycare or by a babysitter.

People nowadays, other than the well-heeled, are living way beyond their means. I get the impression that living an everyday average lifestyle today is passè, and judging by the wheels I see when I'm out and about, a normal average vehicle isn't good enough anymore, instead, vehicles need lots of bling, everything shiny and new, with bigger and better taking front and centre, and money being no object when it comes to price.

I am so happy my husband and I sat down and weighed our options when the time came as to how we were going to approach life, and knowing what we know now, we would both do exactly the same again if we were starting over from scratch.

A proud fulltime stay-at-home mom and homemaker I was and still am today. Can't imagine how tiring it must be to scramble out the door each and every morning leaving the kids to fend for themselves, because mom and dad are too busy chasing a dollar.

My apologies, Peter Petersheim, if I somewhat went off on a tangent related to your started conversation. As for double incomes, with more money coming in, more money goes out, thus breeding the concept of price gouging, inflation, and overpriced everything, hence what we are living and seeing today. As the old say goes, we the people are the product of our own making.
 
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There are far too many variables in situations to be making blanket assumptions. For one thing, the divorce rate skyrocketed in the 70's-80's forcing women to go to work to support themselves and their children. So working outside the home was not so much a frivolous decision but a necessity.

I worked after my children started school because I wanted to. Staying home all day can be drudgery and it is somewhat lonely, especially when the children are in school. I was also divorced for a time and had no choice but to support myself.

Of course this thread isn't really about the breakdown of family values, but about how having 2 incomes has changed financial dynamics. Whether a household has a single income or several, it all comes down to money management and living within your means.

Edit: As far as the cost of housing, that is directly attributed to the costs of labor, materials, taxes, insurance, location, etc. There are MANY factors that affect the cost of housing, and I don't believe that a 2-income household has anything to do with it, other than people take on more debt than they can easily afford.

Beth it wasn't meant to be a blanket assumption; not all women could afford good care or qualify for a good type of job.
We didn't know we had to be workforce skilled to be married. Nothing wrong with wanting to work or wanting to be a homemaker.
Either way we both made it and raised our kids to be good people in spite of who we married.
 
Those 'rights' went from 'the hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world ' to rocking the Casbah 'get a job, work for the babysitters raising your kids, plus expense of working outside the home.
I remember when I took my kids father to court for child support, the judge ask me why I don't get a job, I told him I had a job, called being a mother raising my kids .
I came home early found babysitter and her boyfriend sitting outside smoking pot and my baby with a nasty diaper and diaper rash. Nurseries were too expensive and those babysitter's you could afford weren't always qualified for child care.
Men were no longer held responsible for their kids, like today and the proof is in the pudding, our prisons are full much of our youth is on drugs or irresponsible. Not all of course but many.
I would have gone mad walking into such. Poor baby.

I seldom relied on babysitters. My mom, two of my sisters, and my SIL, were my go-to babysitters, with the addition of two young college girls that sat for me occasionally, and what grand babysitters the college girls were. Experienced, reliable, and trusty.
 
Beth it wasn't meant to be a blanket assumption; not all women could afford good care or qualify for a good type of job.
We didn't know we had to be workforce skilled to be married. Nothing wrong with wanting to work or wanting to be a homemaker.
Either way we both made it and raised our kids to be good people in spite of who we married.
My post wasn't directed at you, Marie.

In keeping with the theme of the video, I still say that it doesn't matter if a family has 2 incomes or a dozen. The important thing is living within your means and understanding finances.
 
I raised a boy from age 6 to, well, he was still with me when I moved out on him when he was 20 and about to get married. I was a single parent, yet I think I did a reasonably good job of parenting while, at the same time, working at the job that paid better than any others that I have had, considering costs of living. It wasn't always easy, and I didn't feel that I had the luxury of taking "me" time, or to be dating people, going to parties, and so on, this despite that fact that I was barely 20 when he came to live with me. But, I enjoyed being a parent and didn't feel deprived of anything. I could always date and meet people later, like when I was 48. It wasn't a sacrifice, as I loved the time that I was with him and consider that to be one of the best things I have done with my life. Sure, parenting might have been easier in a two-parent family but, in his case, the two-parent family was the problem. His mother married someone who was horrible to him. That particular two-parent family was worse than the single-parent family that I offered. Real life doesn't always parallel the family television series we grew up with.
 
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Great conversation.

Let's not forget what we have adopted and imposed upon ourselves throughout the years. Take for instance my grandparents, they lived in the country, had no electricity, at least not at the start, no running water, no natural gas heat, no telephone, not even transportation. I'm not suggesting that was an ideal or wonderful life for them, but that's what they could afford and how it was.

Moving forward, people looked for more modern conveniences, homes became bigger with modern upgrades that reflected more modern day living such as electricity, natural gas, telephones, running water, and when one vehicle parked in the driveway was no longer enough, a second, even a third mode of transportation was acquired, then came the toys, campers, trailers, and boats, but exactly how to pay for all of this.

Well, back to my grandparents generation, they didn't live with debt, they lived within their means, today however, debt is living, and from all that my husband and I see, the more - the merrier. People living paycheck to paycheck, one payday away from the soup-line.

I was a fulltime stay-at-home mom and housewife, sure, we took a financial hit, but overall I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. I got to enjoy all the steps and stages of my children growing, then once in school, I was always home in case someone came down with something in school, the door was unlocked, the lights on, the heat on (cold winter months), and mom was home to take care of them. Today kids run amok, stepping into dark and empty homes, nothing prepared in the way of proper meals, a lack of family intervention and one-on-one time, less-and-less meals at the table where everyone is gathered around, any why? Well, because mom and dad both work outside the home and at the end of the day it comes at the expense of the poor children.

I grocery shop weekly, sometimes twice a week, and I watch mothers pushing their shopping carts around at the supermarket and big-box stores with two jumbo packs of disposable diapers stuffed into their carts. Meals prepared from scratch and at home isn't priority anymore, because with banks and lenders handing out money like they do nowadays, there's fast-food restaurants and meals out.

World travel today knocks both me and my husband off our feet, we've never been on a world trip anywhere, yet young families today enjoy new homes, two new vehicles sitting in the driveway, and trips around the world, and all while raising young and growing children. I for one always think to myself, how in the world are they doing it? How are they affording it all, then it dawns on me, yes, borrowing and living in a pool of debt.

When my children were little, pretty much everyone I knew (family wise), the women of the house stayed home to raise the kids and hold the fort down. We all had a long row of diapers and rubber pants hanging on our clotheslines (no Pampers or Huggies, and yes, they were around), we cooked and baked from scratch, made homemade baby food and formula, used glass baby bottles, not the disposable liner style plastic bottles of today, second-hand and hand-me-down baby furniture and baby clothes was common, and most everyone that we knew still relied solely on a single vehicle to get them around, and not a brand spanking new one either.

Absolutely adamant I was that my kids weren't going to be raised in a daycare or by a babysitter.

People nowadays, other than the well-heeled, are living way beyond their means. I get the impression that living an everyday average lifestyle today is passè, and judging by the wheels I see when I'm out and about, a normal average vehicle isn't good enough anymore, instead, vehicles need lots of bling, everything shiny and new, with bigger and better taking front and centre, and money being no object when it comes to price.

I am so happy my husband and I sat down and weighed our options when the time came as to how we were going to approach life, and knowing what we know now, we would both do exactly the same again if we were starting over from scratch.

A proud fulltime stay-at-home mom and homemaker I was and still am today. Can't imagine how tiring it must be to scramble out the door each and every morning leaving the kids to fend for themselves, because mom and dad are too busy chasing a dollar.

My apologies, Peter Petersheim, if I somewhat went off on a tangent related to your started conversation. As for double incomes, with more money coming in, more money goes out, thus breeding the concept of price gouging, inflation, and overpriced everything, hence what we are living and seeing today. As the old say goes, we the people are the product of our own making.
You and I were cut from the same cloth, Madge. I remember trying paper diapers once when they first came out. LOL I see my daughter, in my mind, toddling down the hall with a wad of some sort of cotton hanging between her legs contained, basically, in a plastic bag.
 
You and I were cut from the same cloth, Madge. I remember trying paper diapers once when they first came out. LOL I see my daughter, in my mind, toddling down the hall with a wad of some sort of cotton hanging between her legs contained, basically, in a plastic bag.
So old-fashioned I was, Mary. Something about following in my own moms footsteps resonated deep within me when it came to using cloth diapers, and just the whole convenience of, made for a convincing case for me to go with the old. So tried and true, baby after baby, generation after generation, cloth diapers stood the test of time and got the job done.

I had a neighbour say to me many years ago, cloth diapers are so much work, and I thought, what work? My modern automatic electric washing machine does all the work, nothing could have been anymore simple and easy, plus, I was a firm-believer in the idea that 100% natural cotton diapers equated to soft comfort on a little ones bottom, adding to the case for me to stick with tradition.

I remember the ill-fitting disposable diapers from the 70's. The padding bunched, there were no elastic gathers around the legs, lifting a sticky tape to check for wetness meant tearing the outside plastic of the diaper, and they leaked something awful.
 
So old-fashioned I was, Mary. Something about following in my own moms footsteps resonated deep within me when it came to using cloth diapers, and just the whole convenience of, made for a convincing case for me to go with the old. So tried and true, baby after baby, generation after generation, cloth diapers stood the test of time and got the job done.

I had a neighbour say to me many years ago, cloth diapers are so much work, and I thought, what work? My modern automatic electric washing machine does all the work, nothing could have been anymore simple and easy, plus, I was a firm-believer in the idea that 100% natural cotton diapers equated to soft comfort on a little ones bottom, adding to the case for me to stick with tradition.

I remember the ill-fitting disposable diapers from the 70's. The padding bunched, there were no elastic gathers around the legs, lifting a sticky tape to check for wetness meant tearing the outside plastic of the diaper, and they leaked something awful.
I used cloth diapers for all my girls too. Just tried paper once. I didn't have a dryer and everything came off the line smelling fresh. The rubber pants were not always a fashion statement though.
 
I used cloth diapers for all my girls too. Just tried paper once. I didn't have a dryer and everything came off the line smelling fresh. The rubber pants were not always a fashion statement though.
Had I lived in a warm climate, I would have line-dried the diapers year-round, however, here in the Great White North, clothesline drying season (for me) lasts only from springtime to autumn. Right you are about everything coming off the line smelling so outdoor fresh and clean.

LOL, about the rubber pants! So true, but what nifty little numbers they were at keeping wetness in.
 
Had I lived in a warm climate, I would have line-dried the diapers year-round, however, here in the Great White North, clothesline drying season (for me) lasts only from springtime to autumn. Right you are about everything coming off the line smelling so outdoor fresh and clean.

LOL, about the rubber pants! So true, but what nifty little numbers they were at keeping wetness in.
Getting back to two income trap, How do kids afford those technically advanced well fitting disposable diapers? and child care etc.
Even today, Once you had the cloth diapers, that was it. If you stayed home, no childcare needed. If you cooked at home maybe it is a forth of eating out all the time. If you ate clean you saved on healthcare and maybe insurance. No income tax on second income lowering first...
Yes, women's lib and burning one's bra set women free. But to what?
The social unrest is probably from lack of parental influence, (not that all parents were perfect)
 
My post wasn't directed at you, Marie.

In keeping with the theme of the video, I still say that it doesn't matter if a family has 2 incomes or a dozen. The important thing is living within your means and understanding finances.
Beth I know you didn't and I understand your point too. Sometimes we thought our means were provided by the man so we could take care care and be homemakers to children and husbands. Boy were some of us wrong.
Unless your financially independent you need a good husband.
I never saw any obviously pregnant women at work.
 
Getting back to two income trap, How do kids afford those technically advanced well fitting disposable diapers? and child care etc.
Even today, Once you had the cloth diapers, that was it. If you stayed home, no childcare needed. If you cooked at home maybe it is a forth of eating out all the time. If you ate clean you saved on healthcare and maybe insurance. No income tax on second income lowering first...
Yes, women's lib and burning one's bra set women free. But to what?
The social unrest is probably from lack of parental influence, (not that all parents were perfect)
Superlative post, Mary!

The whole women's lib and burning one's bra thing really got me to thinking.

I've had people get cross with me accusing me of living in the past too much, and/or reflecting on the old days too much. I'll be the first to admit that I long for days past, and there's good reason for it. I remember on Sunday's everything was closed, a day of rest it was. Sunday's meant something special on the table at our house even if it wasn't particularly fancy. Family time stood for something, families gathered around the dinner table for meals, there was structure and there was closeness.

Weekends were made for catching up on loose ends that piled up through the week, but family time still remained front and centre. Family get-togethers, barbecues, picnics, it all fit part-and-parcel to the times. Revisiting my old childhood home and neighbourhood, all of the older folks (at the time) seemed happy and content, they lived in plain simple homes, and they kept those plain simple homes for decades, in many cases right until the bitter end, and they had savings, too. At the time I didn't think much of it, but I sure do now. There is a lot to learn by the ways and means of past generations, they had the system figured out and they ran with it.

Growing up, we were lucky to see one single outing to a restaurant in an entire year, that being the result of money always being tight in our house, so from scratch home-cooked meals and home-baking was the way, and thinking back on it now, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. I feel blessed to have enjoyed the upbringing I had. Fresh gown garden vegetables, healthy meals, always a bagged school lunch when heading out the door for school.

Before my husband and I tied the knot, we were already engaging with one another as to how it might be if we ever got married and started a family. Having been raised in a home where my mom was CHO (chief household operator), I longed to do the same if ever I started a family, and with my husband onboard with me staying at home, that's what we did, casting the idea of bringing in more money with two incomes off to the side as being low on the scale of importance and instead prioritizing on our children being raised by me..

Marriage happened, babies came along, and there I was putting in my days just like my own mom did, holding down the fort, cooking and baking from scratch, seeing to the every need of my babies, and happy to do so. No shame or embarrassment from me in being the fulltime stay-at-home mom and homemaker I was, in fact, proud of it, and it was completely in step with what other neighbourhood couples were doing at the time.

And yes, so right you are about the old-fashioned way of baby raising, Mary. I started my oldest off with 4 dozen diapers, and I used those same diapers for two babies before they grew threadbare and needed replacing. Rubber pants, laundry detergent, and hot water, that's really all that resulted in any sort of long-term, on-going expense associated with using old-fashioned cloth diapers, and I had those incidentals pegged at nothing more than pennies in the big scheme of things. My kids survived, as did I.

I'm convinced children grew up more healthy and well-adjusted back in the day when mom was at home. I feel it's what's missing today and I feel for all the little ones who won't get to enjoy the love, the closeness, and the overall benefits of being raised the traditional way. This whole double income lifestyle today has come at the cost of the children.
 
I've had people get cross with me accusing me of living in the past too much, and/or reflecting on the old days too much.
My solution for that was to get cross with them and tell them how wasteful they are, whether they realized it or not. A lot of people actually don't care if they are wasteful. So I would lay into them and say there are tons of people starving in the world already (and I'm not talking about bums who choose to live on the street, etc.) and I always said if everyone in the world was wasteful the Earth would eventually not be able to provide enough food even for people with money. So what would they eat then?

I remember on Sunday's everything was closed, a day of rest it was.
Yep. And when businesses started opening on Sunday, it was due to Greed, one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

Growing up, we were lucky to see one single outing to a restaurant in an entire year, that being the result of money always being tight in our house, so from scratch home-cooked meals and home-baking was the way, and thinking back on it now, I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
And we are out-living people born after Greed took over the food production industry, and they started churning out Hybrid Corn, Wheat and GMO foods and such other unhealthy stuff, but there's that Seven Deadly Sin again.

Edit: Once again, my proofreader was taking a Coffee Break. 😁
 
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