Only a few will find it

Ken Anderson

Ken Anderson

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Staff member
Many of us, who consider ourselves to be Christians, take what seems (to us) to be a reasonable, fair, and just view on who we consider to be fellow Christians.

There are hundreds of Christian denominations, and it seems (to me) to be silly and wrong to consider that members of only one of these are going to find salvation.

What if the Baptists were the only ones going to heaven? What if only the Free Will Baptists or the Seventh Day Baptists were to be selected for salvation? What if the Amish, who don't presume that they are saved, are the only ones who have it right?

Are Catholics the only true Christian denomination? What if it's just the Christadelphians, or the Plymouth Brethren?

That probably sounds as preposterous to you as it does to me. It seems only fair to me that those who sincerely consider themselves to be Christians will not be punished for having listened to the wrong person or allowed themselves to be persuaded by an argument that turns out to be wrong.

But do I define God, or am I defined by God? Is God answerable to me or am I answerable to God?

What if the chosen ones are not of one particular denomination, but specific qualities within those who might be members of any of these denominations?

I don't have answers to these questions, and I will admit that they sound crazy to me. But then, God doesn't have to make sense to me. I am supposed to look to Him, not He to me.

Matthew 7:14 says that "small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few will find it."

Further on in the same passage, in Matthew 7:22-23, we read, "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.'"

In 2 Corinthians 11:12-15, we read, "And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, that if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

Do we choose our beliefs on the basis of what seems fair or just to us or do we base our beliefs on Scripture? Does the Bible shape our beliefs or do we choose to believe only those things that agree with our own senses?
 
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I was raised Catholic--in the One True Church. And my father was Jewish--of the Chosen People. I told my college roommate, an Episcopalian,
that thus, I had it made, no matter what.
Well, her folks invited us to dinner over the holidays and one of the guests was their Episcopalian minister. Nancy was nervous and introduced me as an adulterous pap test. The minister looked at me??? I said, what she means is I'm an idolatrous papist.
Under the Old Covenant there are so many laws it is impossible to fulfill them all and if you did not you were not looked upon well by God.
But Christ fulfilled the sacrifice for our sins and under the New Covenant there are only two laws encompassing all. Love God with they whole heart, mind and soul. And Love your neighbor as yourself. Both easy and hard to do but not impossible.
I have been going to Bible study and whenever I come to an issue that I can't handle, I go back to these two laws to make sense of it.
 
Hence the verse (Philippians 2:12) “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”.

The realization hit hard many years ago that no matter how much knowledge I have, no matter what good I do, no matter how many I have led to Christ Jesus and no matter what I feel about other teachings, in the end, it’s going to be just me and my faith facing God.

I can’t rely on what someone else told me in any number of denominations. I can’t rely on my works or titles or even the number of times I have read the scriptures.

The only thing I have going for me is my belief that Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross …..for me.

Now, do I believe that because I have faith that I deserve a spot in Heaven? No. I deserve nothing.
It is only God’s grace through Christ Jesus that I even stand a chance.
 
Bobby speaks to the crux of the matter. Be concerned with your own salvation and no one else.

Several times during my teen years I had some member of my mothers church, wanting to speak with me because they were concerned about my soul salvation. My reply was they should be concerned about their own soul salvation. They would act puzzled and ask why? I would say because you have judged me and that is against a basic teaching.
 
Ken Anderson said:
Of course, the entirety of the New Testament is about being concerned about the salvation of others.
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The difference is between teaching and judging. One can either teach or judge. The NT is about teaching, not judging. My mother was a great example of one that taught by example and what she believed. She didn't judge. I see the NT as being about personal salvation, not the salvation of others.

I think the biggest failing of most dominations, evangelist, preachers, ministers, deacons, or elders, is they are concerned about the salvation of others and not their own. One of my grandpas taught that we should always pray for ourselves, before we do others.
 
Mary Stetler said:
I was raised Catholic--in the One True Church. And my father was Jewish--of the Chosen People. I told my college roommate, an Episcopalian,
that thus, I had it made, no matter what.
Well, her folks invited us to dinner over the holidays and one of the guests was their Episcopalian minister. Nancy was nervous and introduced me as an adulterous pap test. The minister looked at me??? I said, what she means is I'm an idolatrous papist.
Under the Old Covenant there are so many laws it is impossible to fulfill them all and if you did not you were not looked upon well by God.
But Christ fulfilled the sacrifice for our sins and under the New Covenant there are only two laws encompassing all. Love God with they whole heart, mind and soul. And Love your neighbor as yourself. Both easy and hard to do but not impossible.
I have been going to Bible study and whenever I come to an issue that I can't handle, I go back to these two laws to make sense of it.
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I don't have a church group, just study on my own.
 
I feel as though I need to clear something up a bit.

By working or “seeking” my own salvation with fear and trembling, it simply means that I should not be found wanting or hypocritical.
It’s a given that I have to live in this world but I can’t do whatever this world allows me to do because as an adopted child of God, to do what I know I should not do or teach what I myself do not live by is, in it’s simplest form, I would be taking God’s name in vain.

Now, so far as judging others, I have to be able to judge whether or not someone should hear the Good News. Jesus set the example when He sent His disciples out to all the towns around to preach and teach the Gospel.
One of the main factors in His command was that if the people will not receive their teachings then to go to the edge of town and to shake the very dust of the streets off of their feet then keep walking. That takes a lot of judgement.

The thing that Jesus talked about when speaking of Judging is that it is by the “measure” of judgement that we use that we too will be judged by.
To be very loose about it, it’s a tit for tat. It’s a very stern warning and it comes with receipts. However severe that I judge, I will be judged with that same severity.

Almost lastly, the one thing we Cannot judge is someone else’s eternal destiny. Again, back to Philippians 2:12, I cannot even say what my own eternal destiny is because that judgment belongs to God alone so how can I say, no matter how someone is living or what someone else is doing, stand and determine what their eventual destiny will be? It’s God’s job no matter how many people try to make it theirs.

Really lastly: I was ordained to preach and teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The New Testament is the very basis of that command but 2:12 simply tells me that my own ship had best be tight before I attempt to fulfill that ordination.
 
Ken Anderson said:
Do we choose our beliefs on the basis of what seems fair or just to us or do we base our beliefs on Scripture? Does the Bible shape our beliefs or do we choose to believe only those things that agree with our own senses?
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Reviewing the question above, posed in the OP, I realize I hadn't answered it. It is a tough but fair question.

My answer is my upbringing and knowledge of the Scripture, was what lead me to realize that my living in the mountains, alone, was a perfect opportunity to find the answers without societal, church, or established Christian influence.

I had spend years during my teens and early 20s, in the Four Corners area, visiting and studying various Indian tribes and all the still existing ruins of their ancient civilizations. It seemed while their spiritualism was very different than that spoke of in the Bible, that there was one identical factor. The existence of a supreme power that rules the universe. Call that power God or the Great Spirit, it made no difference.

A long story short, I studied and talked with local elders from two different tribes. I wanted to know about what a vision quest entailed. I was amazed that the basic practice was very close to what Christ taught about praying. Go to a quiet place, by yourself, become still and clear your mind of all the clutter of life. Let time stand still. Loving the outdoors as I did, I climbed to a mountain top above my cabin where their was spring water. I carried only a knife and a large elk hide I had tanned.

Having studied several text on fasting, prayer, and meditation, I fasted for 3 days. Each day my mind became clearer. On the third day during a meditation or prayer if you prefer, all the answers I had for years, were answered. I then saw visions of spirits and realized I was entering into a hallucination stage and time to break the fast and return back to my cabin.

Understanding the Bible and other religious text, became easy for me from that day on. Consider when it was written, how the writers lived and what they knew about the rest of the world, what was opinion based on custom, what evidence is there to support that the writers were ordained by a supreme power, other than their word? I learned there is truth and then there is fact. Ones beliefs may be truth to them, but in no way a universal fact. The use of the word truth, to mean fact, can be misleading.

I have my own personal truths and while they are facts to me, they aren't universal and certainly don't apply to others. So, to answer Kens question, yes, the Bible was an influence, especially the basic teaching of Christ, to treat others like you want to be treated, but also from what my own senses received during a time of fasting and meditation or prayer. I don't see a conflict, but rather a joining of knowledge from reading ancient scripture and also that of sensed enlightenment from "prayer." It has been true to me for 50 years now. While others my age may struggle to deal with death and a spiritual afterlife of either reward or punishment, it doesn't enter my mind. I resolved all that 50 years ago on a mountain top.

I always think of my grandpa when a tricky preacher was trying to back him into a corner over some scripture interpretation and what he would do in a certain situation, "I don't know what I would do, but I know what I should do."
 
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Faye Fox said:
The difference is between teaching and judging. One can either teach or judge. The NT is about teaching, not judging. My mother was a great example of one that taught by example and what she believed. She didn't judge. I see the NT as being about personal salvation, not the salvation of others.

I think the biggest failing of most dominations, evangelist, preachers, ministers, deacons, or elders, is they are concerned about the salvation of others and not their own. One of my grandpas taught that we should always pray for ourselves, before we do others.
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I somewhat agree and there are verses on this, one is about removing the bolder out of your own eye before talking the splitter out of anothers. or that's my understanding of it.
 
Marie Mallory said:
I somewhat agree and there are verses on this, one is about removing the bolder out of your own eye before talking the splitter out of anothers. or that's my understanding of it.
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I agree. I think some number of people use the Bible as a checklist that to judge the behaviour of others rather than as a mirror to evaluate their own behaviour.
 
Regarding denominations (and no offense meant to Catholics, but someone had to be the punchline):

A man arrived at the gates of Heaven.

St. Peter asked, “What denomination are you?”
The man said, “I'm a Methodist."
St. Peter looked down his list and said,” Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

Another man arrived at the gates of Heaven.
St. Peter asked, “What denomination are you?”
“I'm a Lutheran.”
St. Peter looks at his list and says “Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”

A third man arrived at the gates.
St. Peter asked, “What denomination are you?”
The man says "I'm Baptist."
St. Peter says “Go to Room 11, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8.”
The man said, “I can understand there being different rooms for different denominations, but why must I be quiet when I pass Room 8?”
St. Peter told him, “Well, the Catholics are in Room 8, and they think they’re the only ones here.”
 
I've heard that many times with many different punchlines. My favorite one has always been:

The man said, “I can understand there being different rooms for different denominations, but why must I be quiet when I pass Room 8?”

St. Peter told him, “Well, Duane Allman is giving God a guitar lesson in Room 8.”
 
We don't get to decide who goes to heaven. God does that, and because that is God's decision alone and we are not privy to His thoughts, except as He has chosen to reveal them in Scripture, it's wrong for us to decide that one group is going to heaven, while another group is doomed to hell. Thus, I won't say that members of any particular denomination, identifying themselves as Christian, are not truly Christian.

I might think it, but I shouldn't say it.

It's safer to presume that those who do not identify as Christian are unlikely to make it because God did reveal to us that the way to life is through Christ, and Christ alone. It's true that if you don't believe in Christ, then you don't believe these Scriptures, but your disbelief doesn't invalidate Scripture. People who did not believe that the police or the courts had any jurisdiction over them have nevertheless found themselves in prison.

Still, God condemns people to hell, not me, and He may have another plan for devout Muslims or Buddhists. I don't see evidence of such a plan in Scripture, but perhaps that's because these plans aren't any of my business.

However, I think it's dangerous to extrapolate from any of this that it doesn't matter what we believe or do. There are plenty of Scriptural references on the importance of discernment, which is the ability to distinguish truth from falsehood, guided by God's wisdom and the Holy Spirit, as revealed to us in Scripture. We are also told that it is our responsibility to do our best to come to a factual understanding of Scripture, to correctly handle it, and to do what it says.

If I am responsible for having a correct understanding of Scripture, then it stands to reason that anything sharply outside of this understanding is false. If "X" is the one true path to salvation, then "Y" and "Z" are not true paths to salvation. Although I am not the one making this decision, it naturally follows.

Thus, while it would be presumptuous of me to go around as if it were up to me to decide who is going to heaven and who is going to hell, it is up to me to determine which path is likely to get me there, and to therefore determine that the others are likely to lead somewhere else. Anything else would endanger my hope of salvation.

While we don't make the decisions for anyone other than ourselves, it still matters whether we make the right decisions or not.
 
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Ken Anderson said:
Many of us, who consider ourselves to be Christians, take what seems (to us) to be a reasonable, fair, and just view on who we consider to be fellow Christians.

There are hundreds of Christian denominations, and it seems (to me) to be silly and wrong to consider that members of only one of these are going to find salvation.

What if the Baptists were the only ones going to heaven? What if only the Free Will Baptists or the Seventh Day Baptists were to be selected for salvation? What if the Amish, who don't presume that they are saved, are the only ones who have it right?

Are Catholics the only true Christian denomination? What if it's just the Christadelphians, or the Plymouth Brethren?

That probably sounds as preposterous to you as it does to me. It seems only fair to me that those who sincerely consider themselves to be Christians will not be punished for having listened to the wrong person or allowed themselves to be persuaded by an argument that turns out to be wrong.

But do I define God, or am I defined by God? Is God answerable to me or am I answerable to God?

What if the chosen ones are not of one particular denomination, but specific qualities within those who might be members of any of these denominations?

I don't have answers to these questions, and I will admit that they sound crazy to me. But then, God doesn't have to make sense to me. I am supposed to look to Him, not He to me.

Matthew 7:14 says that "small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few will find it."

Further on in the same passage, in Matthew 7:22-23, we read, "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers.'"

In 2 Corinthians 11:12-15, we read, "And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, that if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve."

Do we choose our beliefs on the basis of what seems fair or just to us or do we base our beliefs on Scripture? Does the Bible shape our beliefs or do we choose to believe only those things that agree with our own senses?
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I'm not comprehending well these days, so not sure what you meant.
 
Ken Anderson said:
There are plenty of Scriptural references on the importance of discernment, which is the ability to distinguish truth from falsehood, guided by God's wisdom and the Holy Spirit, as revealed to us in Scripture. We are also told that it is our responsibility to do our best to come to a factual understanding of Scripture, to correctly handle it, and to do what it says.
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Ken is so right about this. A passage about the importance of finding correct knowledge was pointed out to me by some nice Jehovah's Witnesses while I was trying to politely discourage them from coming back over and over trying to convert me. I had said we were all Christians and that I didn't think some of our differences (like calling God Jehovah or not) mattered very much.

God bless them, and I believe He does because they live their faith every day and work hard to spread the gospel. At the same time I think some of the things their founder taught were incorrect.

I read the Bible daily and try to understand it correctly without letting current societal beliefs influence me. It isn't easy.

1 Corinthians 13:12
" For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
 
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