Who Has More Faith? Believers Or Atheists?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Lara Moss, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Terry Page

    Terry Page Very Well-Known Member
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    I don't know anything really Lara so if that is an agnostic yes I am one, I am not even certain the universe exists.

    A am a tad confused by the elephant, negative alternative statement?
     
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  2. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    "Elephant in the room" is just an expression of something glaringly obvious to the observer but unintentionally ignored by those in the room. It's just that you mentioned "Nirvana" but not it's alternative. Sorry to bring it up.

    What do you think about near-death experiences? My son had one at age 2 when he had Miocarditis and clinically "died". He described his near-death experience at age four after he looked up at a mountaintop and said he'd been there. So of course he wasn't influenced by books or movies, or articles. It was the same description as everyone else who ever describes it…being in the presence of God…who is clothed in white, bright, almost blinding light and feeling total peace and love. My son went on to say he was standing on top of the mountain next to God and knew he was bright but couldn't describe him because he said they were next to each other staring down below when my son then recovered and came back to life.

    I wonder what people of other religions say about their experience with near-death. I never hear anything about that. Hmm. Maybe I'll research that. Interesting.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  3. Terry Page

    Terry Page Very Well-Known Member
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    Yes sorry Lara I do understand the "Elephant in the Room" saying, but when I mentioned Nirvana I was being a tad light hearted, as I have no beliefs in the area of heaven and hell, I feel they are manifestations of the mind. I also feel NDE's are mind creations, I haven't researched them lately, but in the past I was never convinced they were a reality, but of course I am always open to being convinced otherwise.

    A few years ago I did watch a science documentary that had discovered a so called God part in the brain, which if stimulated by an electronic probe, would create a religious experience, an epiphany of sorts. The human brain is the most complex mechanism in the known universe and is in my opinion capable of much more than we can dream of, it can create and heal illness also manifest delusions from a seemingly unreliable memory which is constantly being rewritten, I try only to observe what I see in my life without judgement, and so far nothing that couldn't be explained logically to me has occurred in my world.
     
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  4. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Agree about the brain @Terry Page. Some mentally ill actually hear voices and see things that aren't there. Very real to them.
     
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  5. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    Good post Terry, and thank you for taking the time as it makes the discussion more interesting...but I have a question, how can a 2 year old manifest a "mind creation" of a near death experience that matches everyone else's expressed near death experience? I could understand it if the child was old enough to have been influenced by books, media, etc but not a 2 year old.
     
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  6. Terry Page

    Terry Page Very Well-Known Member
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    I depends what you choose to believe Lara, Carl Jung believed in the collective unconscious where all of human thoughts/ideas exist, it would explain a lot of past life experiences and many psychic occurrences, we simply tap into this consciousness without being aware of the process, there are so many things in the universe that we do not understand and possibly never will.
     
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  7. Terry Page

    Terry Page Very Well-Known Member
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    I also believe in our dreams we sometimes tap into this collective experience, which again possibly explains a lot about about predictive and lucid dreams
     
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  8. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    If your last 2 posts are answering your posted quote of mine (my question regarding the near death experience of my 2 yr old) I can assure you he wasn't merely asleep and dreaming…he was clinically dead immediately following trauma. But I agree about the unfathomable capacity of the brain while alive.
     
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  9. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Here's a scientific view, Lara......also exact moment of death is a fine line and could depend on the Dr. Making the call. Many people declared dead turned out not to be. I'm not saying that was the case with your son, I wasn't there, you were. Anyway, here is the article.

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...ould-explain-near-death-experiences-28726479/

    I have read one instance of NDE where I was pretty convinced but it was on the internet and you know how sources are on it.

    It was about a person that was blind from birth and yet could explain in detail what he saw in the operating room as he was looking down on his body.

    When my husband was dying and after he died I did a lot of research on NDEs, wanting it to be true. :)
     
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  10. Terry Page

    Terry Page Very Well-Known Member
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    Have you ever read Aldous Huxley's "The Doors of Perception & Heaven and Hell" Lara, he describes the effect of perceiving the world with the normally restricting valve that filters out 90% or more of reality, opened by a drug called mescalin.

    In 1952 Aldous Huxley became involved in the now legendary experiment to clinically detail the physiological and psycho-logical effects of the little known drug used by Mexican and Native American elders in religious practices. The drug was Peyote-now commonly know as mescalin. By the standards of the time, Huxley was a hard working, respected, and reserved intellectual from a highly intelligent, well-know, and eccentric British family. By any standards, the results of the experiment were remarkable. The Doors of Perception and Heaven and Hell detail the practic-alities of the experiment and give Huxley's vivid account of his im-mediate experience and the more prolonged effect upon his sub-sequent thinking and awareness.

    At first, the reader is drawn in by the sheer naivety and tom-foolery of the proposal but is soon caught in a finely woven net by the juxtaposition of Huxley's formidable intellect, his remarkable ability to convey the experience in such acute and truthful detail, and his incredible modesty. In 1922 Gertrude Stein famously wrote - A rose is a rose is a rose. In proving her right, Huxley also shows the deeper meaning be-hind the apparently simple verse and goes on to deliver such spec-tacular accounts of the most everyday objects that the reason for their repeated and continual renderings by all the major artists throughout history suddenly becomes quite clear. For the con-scious and willing reader - a trip to the Guggenheim, the Louvre or the Tate Modern will never be the same again.


    Reflecting on the experience afterwards, Huxley finds himself in agreement with philosopher C. D. Broad that to enable us to live, the brain and nervous system eliminate unessential information from the totality of the Mind at Large.

    In summary, Huxley writes that the ability to think straight is not reduced while under the influence of mescaline, visual impressions are intensified, and the human experimenter will see no reason for action because the experience is so fascinating
     
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  11. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    Chrissy…..That's why I used the terms "Clinically" Dead….and "Near" death experience. He never made it to the other side because he is with us today….just "nearly"
     
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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
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  12. Terry Page

    Terry Page Very Well-Known Member
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    No I wasn't referring directly to your 2 yr olds NDE Lara, I was just elaborating on how complex our experience of consciousness is and bringing dreams into the discussion..
     
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  13. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    @Lara Moss , whatever we believe I'm just happy that he survived! What a horrible time that must have been for you, I can't even imagine it.
     
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