I've Got A Question

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Sheldon Scott, Jun 30, 2016.

  1. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    I understand the idea that someone might feel as though they might be beating their head against solid rock when they are trying to explain something to another individual. Maybe that is one of the reasons Jesus chose 12 men to begin with. Whereas one person might not be able to explain something and be understood by using multiple words and phrases another can simply walk up and say a dozen words or so and be totally understood by a questioning individual. The giver and the receiver have to be on the same wave length it would seem, and if they are not then someone else should try the match-up in order to avoid confusion and a headache. ( we all know who the author of confusion is, correct?)

    Peter is called a rock because I believe he would hit you over the head with one in order to be understood and make you believe. Some people need that, while others, not so much.
     
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  2. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I try to restrict myself to what the Bible actually says, and since people have been studying it for a couple of centuries now, I am unlikely to be able to come up with unique new spin on the subject, and I would suggest that those who do are making it up as they go along.

    I knew that, which is why I said that there was no point in my wasting any more time with it. If God establishes a new covenant with His people, you question whether a true God would ever change, but you're okay with it whenever a new Pope changes the rules of Catholicism. I don't get it, and it's certainly not worth arguing. I'll eagerly discuss anyone with anyone who actually cares about the discussion but that's not the sort sort of thing that I want to kill time on.
     
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  3. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Very Well-Known Member
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    My original question and other questions are about me trying to understand why people believe as they do. The bible has been changed numerous times, many books removed, and other parts ignored.

    So many questions and so few answers. It's hard to have a discussion when people get mad because you are questioning their religion.

    I was hoping to get a good discussion going here but I guess I need to stay out of the religion forum.

    My sister is typical of "Christians" I know. If I ask her why she believes this or that she just tells me I'm going to hell and she doesn't want to talk about it.

    She also thinks Obama is the best president we've ever had.
     
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  4. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Unless you are the same religion as the person you're talking to, there's no point in any discussion.

    Each side can quote whatever to prove a point. Since it's all interpretation. No wonder there are atheists and agnostics. Even people who are religious can't agree on the bible.

    Ken could explain the whole bible to me and I still wouldn't see it his way, nor will he see it my way and an atheist can disprove all of it. Just a book on some history facts and some laws to govern and control thrown in. No real proof. You either have faith and believe or you don't.

    Just giving explanations that might be why God said don't eat this or that are just assumptions. You're assuming you know why God did something. I would think it was more the people at that time who thought that.

    I have a drs appt this morning and my BP is rising writing this so that's all I'm going to say.
     
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  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Nor do I, but there is always someone who will.
     
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  6. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    You are the one that got mad Ken. You're reply shocked me.

    I realize that if you are Catholic on here, don't bother discussing religion.

    Go ahead Sheldon, discuss all you want, I'm not replying anymore just a waste of time looking up bible quotes.
     
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  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Really? Because I recognized what you have since acknowledged, that anything I could say would be a waste of time, you translate that as being angry? I gave a reasoned reply to a question posed by @Sheldon Scott. You dismissed it out of hand and then pulled your offended Catholic card, and I'm the one who was angry? Incredible.
     
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  8. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    This is getting ridiculous. This is not the way Christians I've known act... I'll go out on a limb and say that I was shocked at a few things I saw here yesterday, too.

    Since when are Catholics not fellow Christians, Ken? Since when do Christians tell someone their questions are not worth the time answering? I can't wrap my head around this, but I'll say it's no damn wonder (oh man, I never cuss, that's how upset I am!) people don't want to be a Christian. Look how "Christians" conduct themselves!

    @Chrissy Page or @Sheldon Scott , (or anyone else) if you have questions about Protestant beliefs, or any beliefs at all, please PM me and I will give you my email address. I can pretty much guarantee that I won't have theological answers off the top of my head, but I'm always willing to look things up and explore the Word together. I truly can't see that interpretation matters that much if we're all believers with faith in Christ.
     
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  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Once again, @Mari North, you are perfectly free to answer whatever questions you like. No one is stopping you. The fact that I am administering this forum does not carry with it the obligation to answer every question that is posed here. Rather than answering these questions yourself, you choose instead to attack me for not doing so. As for being shocked, I am not surprised. As I said earlier, perhaps in another thread, there are always people willing to line up to be first in the offended line. If that's what you're into, have at it. I hope it satisfies whatever has gotten into you. I wish you'd at least be honest in your accusations, but honesty is too much to expect from a baseless attack, I suppose.

    Just for fun, I can show you where I have said that I expect to find Catholics in heaven, but I'll bet you can't find anyplace where I've said that they weren't Christians, as you falsely accuse me. You just made that up in your eagerness to gain a place in the offended line. No, I don't expect an apology. I wouldn't want you to lose your place in line.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  10. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Oh, I don't get offended, I get mad. :mad: I didn't attack you... the only direct question to you was since when Catholics aren't fellow Christians. (If you decide to answer that question, that would be great.) If I'd be offended or "attacking" anyone, I would have listed specifics.

    Uh... wait, I just read that again... I guess I'll need to list specific since you said "baseless attack" and questioned my honesty in accusations. Okey dokey.... here we go... first thing was when @Yvonne Smith shared her Mama's beliefs with us, and stated it's the way she believes, too. You asked what if the disciples had believed that way. To me, that was saying that Yvonne's way was wrong and yours was the only right way.

    Yesterday, you told Chrissy, basically, that her questions were too dumb to use up your time answering. That's when I had to do a double take.

    Then when I said I didn't consider her questions out of line, you said if I can do better, have at it. Maybe you don't consider that a snarky reply. I do.

    Need more? Now tell me again who's been attacked? My ONE question to you was why you don't consider Catholics fellow Christians.
     
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  11. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    This is NOT acceptable! And from our administrator! And you think I'm offended. EVERYONE should be offended here. I would gladly apologize to anyone deserving one. If I truly did offend anyone here, let me know. I think I did pretty darn good keeping under control yesterday, but today's turning out to be surreal!

    Hey guess what, Ken? NOW I'm offended. Highly.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I'll answer that question if you can answer this one. Since when aren't Jewish people human beings? It's as relevant as the question you asked me.
     
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  13. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Let it go Mari, I'm not going to argue this point anymore. For one, Ken is admin and I feel I have to hold back in whatever I say, so I really can't say what I want. I'm on thin ground as it is. Ken banned me but when my mom died he let me back on. I asked Yvonne to intervene.

    I especially don't need this today because this affects me and I already know my BP is going to be higher than normal. I feel when my body is stressed and anxious, I know the signs.

    I just can't deal with this right now, an hour before my appt.
     
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  14. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I"lll have to let it go. No one have EVER treated me like that. Ever. You calm down now... I'm going to send you my email in PM... if it "mysteriously" gets deleted or something, Yvonne or Bobby can give it to you. I hope your tests turn out okay, Chrissy. I don't know what's going on here, but I'm in tears and trembling. I had enough bullying in high school and I finally know that I don't need to take it.
     
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  15. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    @Mari North, you are quick with the accusations. You accused me of saying that Catholics weren't Christians. Please show me where I have said that. Since you made the accusation and used that as your claim for a place in the offended line, I think it's reasonable to ask you to show me where I have said that. I allow more personal attacks against myself than against other people, but honesty is always appreciated. You were quick with the accusations. Now can you back it up with anything other than pointing out your place in the offended line? Where did I say that Catholics were not Christians?

    I can show you where @Chrissy Page said that only Catholics were going to heaven but no, I didn't claim a place in line for that. The Catholic Church teaches that, so there's no reason for me to be offended over her believing it. That would be silly.

    But you can't show me a place where I said that Catholics weren't Christians because I didn't say that. I have never even implied it. You made that up, yet you are the one who's offended?
     
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  16. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I'm trembling too and the only thing that's stopping my tears is mascara I put on because I'm going to the DR.

    I want to thank you again for popping in when I was down. Everything about you is good, Mari...don't ever change.
    I have to leave now....
     
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  17. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Ken, my goodness. Number one, this makes no sense. Jewish people... human beings? Say what? When you've calmed down, please re-read what I said. I did not say you SAID Catholics aren't Christians... good gracious! I said "since when are they not Christians" meaning (I must be a lousy writer... don't usually have to translate!) meaning why are Catholics being treated like their questions don't matter. In other words, since when are Catholics not fellow Christians (to be treated with love and compassion as brothers and sisters) ... wait, those are the same words! Hmmm. I mean, if a Baptist or Methodist or Lutheran asks you a question you don't deem worthy of an answer, would you respond in the same way.
     
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  18. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    You're right. It makes no sense at all. But when you were demanding that I answer your question, "Since when are (Catholics) not Christians?", there is a presumption that I had said they were not Christians. No, I have clearly said that I expect to find Catholics in heaven.

    Rather than being offended because I didn't want to play along any longer, why didn't you simply answer the questions? They weren't asked of me specifically. I didn't even participate in the thread until it had been here for a while, and then only because no one else had given an answer that I thought went far enough for anyone not already familiar with the reasons why the Old Testament food laws had been put in place, and my response wasn't to @Chrissy Page but to the original question posed by @Sheldon Scott.

    Given that I had spent more than an hour in my response to this question, having it summarily dismissed in a few words indicated to me that there was no value in continuing with it. There is nothing in that to suggest that you couldn't have at it if you wanted to.

    Questions having to do with why God does what He does are not ones that are likely to result in a satisfactory answer to someone who doesn't want to be satisfied. There was no anger in my response, I know, because I wasn't angry. I simply didn't want to spend any more time with it.

    It's easy to ask questions, but harder to answer them. When one response is dismissed without consideration, and followed up by another question that would surely not have an acceptable answer, it doesn't make sense to keep answering them.

    Then when people began fighting for a place in line, vying for the prize of being the most offended, the whole thing just gets nutty. Then, when you jump in to claim your place in line, asking me why I don't think that Catholics are Christians, it's annoying.

    Even if you meant it as you now claim, the question still wouldn't make sense. Why would questions from Christians be more deserving of an answer than those of non-Christians? If I believe that the questions are genuine, and I think that I might be able to answer them, I'll do so. Otherwise, I won't.

    Again, if you want to put yourself up as the one person who can answer every question about why God does what He does, by all means do so. Keep in mind that books have been written about these subjects, yet those who pose the questions never read the books, and wouldn't be satisfied with the answers if they had. This is because they don't really want answers.

    It makes no sense for you to be offended because I choose not to be the sole apologist for God.
     
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  19. Ruby Begonia

    Ruby Begonia Very Well-Known Member
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    Seems like some posts have been deleted here. If they were as shameful as the one deleted yesterday , I shouldn't wonder.
     
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  20. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Unless someone deleted their own post within fifteen minutes of posting it, no posts were deleted yesterday.
     
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  21. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    the Whole bible, OT and NT are about Jesus. It's intricately linked together, somehow. But this is my belief, or "my faith" that is not perfect. Jesus has saved the world from their sin. Because we are saved, does not change the fact we are still sinners, but we are sinners saved by grace. Because Jesus was the ultimate Sacrifice. Before Jesus, in the OT it tells all about the sacrifices for sin. God explains that there must be "blood shed" for the redemption of sin (I think redemption is the right word??) But payed for, our sin had to be payed for with blood. That's why One of Jesus' names is "the Lamb of God".

    All the bible says for us to be "saved" from our sins, is to believe, by faith. Maybe someone wants to find the verses. I understand this is only my belief, and I'm only telling folks what it is that I get from the bible.

    This keeps going off the main topic but I really like your post as well @Joe Riley. @Chrissy Page I understand your thoughts, pretty much, I'm not you so I can't know for sure. I'm just saying that I have thought the same things, pondered it over and over. Again, any hope I have about this stinky world is in Christ. I have said for a long time, and many times to those that either are not sure, or don't believe at all, that if you have something or someone else to believe in that gives you hope, that is better than Jesus, go for it. I know I would.
     
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  22. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Very Well-Known Member
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    I do not have all the answers on that question either, @Sheldon Scott . There are so many different sects just in the Christian belief system, that even explaining why one sect believes something a certain way, would do nothing to explain why a different sect believes it totally different.
    If you are just asking these questions out of curiosity, then you are going to get a whole lot of different answers, and probably end up more bewildered than when you started.

    However, if you are asking because you are seeking to actually know if there is a God, then (to me, at least), the answer to that is pretty straightforward.
    Go somewhere private, and just ASK Him to reveal himself to you if he is truly real. God is spiritual, and will answer you in your heart.
    Trying to prove whether God exists the same way that you would prove how electricity works (as an example) can't be done.
    One place in the Bible gives an example of people calling out to God and saying that they have healed people and done other miracles in his name, and God still says he does not know them.
    So, (and this is only MY belief, Sheldon) what God is looking for is not just that we follow rules like eating or not eating shellfish; but whether we actually have asked him to come into our heart.
     
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  23. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    I think it's really important for all of us to remember that we have different beliefs. I think the worst thing anyone can do to another human being, when it comes to "religion" or what I like to call it "relationship" with God, is to tell them "their belief" is the only "right" way. I don't tell folks what they "should" believe, or my way is the right way, on anything. I'm speaking to everyone on the thread, but chrissy hit on it. I do not call any "man" father, and I do not believe in the Catholic "ways". The main reason being, I believe in the bible, and no where does it tell me I have to go through mary to do anything.

    Enough said on that, because there are plenty of other religions I do not believe in either. But I am as stubborn as anyone when I think I'm being told "how I am", "what I believe", "what I do, or should do", or "what I think". I respect others free will, I hope when discussing this topic we will all remember to respect others as well.
     
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  24. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    The differences between most of the Christian denominations are not great, and are mostly over non-salvational issues or internal politics. There are some Christian sects that are so far out there, in my opinion, to be non-Christian. I am not condemning them to that category, but merely acknowledging it, and I won't name them because I am sure that someone here will claim to be a member of that sect, and let me know that they are highly offended, but I will say that I am not including Catholicism in this small group.

    The "Christian church" is not a denomination or affiliation of denominations, but those individuals within (and without) these groups who have a true relationship with the Lord, and it doesn't involve a membership card.
     
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  25. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    This is a really how I feel as well. I've been on numerous "christian" forums, and they are crazy to say the least. I think it is a totally "personal" thing and I think every one of us struggles with our faith, in whatever it is. I can't agree more Yvonne on trying to "prove" the bible is truth. I see people doing that, and I always remember some "what I think" was the best advice. That was never try to "prove" the bible is truth. The other thing I believe is never tell someone I KNOW, I can say it in my heart, which I do sometimes when I am praying, but many times, my prayers are like "if your are their God, if you are real, please hear my prayer".
     
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