Saving In Gold

Jacob Petersheim said:
Pre-1965 "silver" dollar coins are 90% silver. At today's spot price they are worth $72.66 each, though typically to sell them you must take some discount, so you'd probably get like $65.

What has changed? The value of a dollar has fallen by that much in purchasing power.

Of course owning land free and clear and the other things you mentioned are important, though the bit about guns seems oddly paranoid or something to me. Sure, people do that, but I can't see how it might count among your retirement financials.

Silver is pretty speculative. It tends to fall to low prices and stay for a long period of time between spikes of high pricing. Gold tends to be more steady and stable, which is why nations and banks retain large amounts of it. Retirement advisors have been suggest that instead of holding 60% in stocks and 40% in bonds that people should start altering the ratio and added gold as a 3rd portion of investments. Some say 20%, some have said 40% in gold.

The world is changing as the post-WWII "Order" is replaced.

Here is a gold chart covering recent history:

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Where is the lack of inflation protection here?

The chart is dollars per ounce by year. Gold isn't expanding, dollars are i. Radically.
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Faye and I don't go around shooting humans, or at least not often. :ROFLMAO: But I have foxes, racoons and possums that will kill my chickens. Packs of coyotes can be heard even here in Wisconsin and they can do worse. It is not paranoia. We also have deer, ducks, rabbits and many other food sources if the grocery stores closed or electricity went out.
Food, water and shelter (land) are the most important things. Not phones, computers and an expensive car. We don't see that because we expect the government will save us against all things. Unless you live in Appalachia or New York City under Mandani . Even Trump can't save us as things are. And if there is any kind of collapse, no one will come and save you. If you don't have community--the same
Metals hold their value even if it is not reported accurately but the truth seems to be coming out. Surprisingly you can't eat them and can't sell it them there are no buyers.
 
Faye Fox said:
Just my opinion, but the most secure wealth is guns, ammo, land, and food. You can't eat gold and no one in a starving world would trade food for gold. All the afore mentioned things, have just gone up in price and will always have value.
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Please ask the former gun owners on Hawaii. You don’t need ammo not even primers. Without tools, seeds, water, labor your land does not feed you. Value of gold is engrained in human mind.
 
I agree we need to tune out advertising noise from precious metals retailers. On a certain level they have much in common with brokerage firms, real estate peddlers, car salesmen, and carnival barkers.

Once you have your home paid off most peoples' real estate position is set though. The viability of running additional income properties just isn't there with age unless perhaps you've been running a family slumlord operation with kids who handle maintenance, etc. As an investment, liquidity is low. You also have property taxes and upkeep and if you sell there are high taxes on that too.

Getting 3% or 4% on a savings account isn't bad but doesn't really keep up with eroding purchasing power. And those rates are likely to fall again now, and could even go negative.

For an older person gold isn't really investing and it isn't going to make you rich. We don't have 20, 30, 40 years to hold onto it. But it can be an alternative to cash savings and bonds. It's just another place to park cash until you need it, and safer than most from erosion of buying power.

But it's no perfect solution and it isn't for everyone.
 
Jacob Petersheim said:
I agree we need to tune out advertising noise from precious metals retailers. On a certain level they have much in common with brokerage firms, real estate peddlers, car salesmen, and carnival barkers.

Once you have your home paid off most peoples' real estate position is set though. The viability of running additional income properties just isn't there with age unless perhaps you've been running a family slumlord operation with kids who handle maintenance, etc. As an investment, liquidity is low. You also have property taxes and upkeep and if you sell there are high taxes on that too.

Getting 3% or 4% on a savings account isn't bad but doesn't really keep up with eroding purchasing power. And those rates are likely to fall again now, and could even go negative.

For an older person gold isn't really investing and it isn't going to make you rich. We don't have 20, 30, 40 years to hold onto it. But it can be an alternative to cash savings and bonds. It's just another place to park cash until you need it, and safer than most from erosion of buying power.

But it's no perfect solution and it isn't for everyone.
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Wow! You get 3-4% on a savings account? here I think it is $0.02-01%. And if you look at the fine print, in a bank or credit union, once you put your money in, it is no longer yours. You hold 'shares' in the establishment. You can get at it as long as there is no crisis. But not if things go down badly. Then you lose your shares because there is not enough money to cover FDIC promises.
I bought metals in the eighties. Silver skyrocketed to $50 once during the Hunt brothers fiasco. But mostly the metals did nothing--till lately. Now it is a dream investment that people are willing to jump on. The price is no longer secretly controlled though central banks want to. Governments have their own plans. It's happened during the depression era.
I have seen some great counterfeits coming from China. I bought a good one, an 'old' silver dollar on Temu just to see one. It looks good although a bit thin (depth of the coin) and the 'tarnish' rubs off. But more and better are coming.
I have seen friends lose all they had to nursing homes or reverse mortgages. My hubby's latest health issues makes me wonder about the upcoming bills and it occurs to me that my investments were always to keep us safe and maybe to have something to leave the kids.
I was talking to a more well heeled friend this week who was going to a lawyer with hubby. She said this was the last year for tax free estates? I said but we don't get taxed. She said up to $10million. I guess she was worried. I have no where near THAT amount but with real estate as it is, many have $500,000 around here. Black Rock has been offering insane cash offers for the last couple of years and I get a call a month from someone wanting my farm. As the Chinese say, we are living in interesting times.
 
Counterfeit silver and gold seems rampant. Much of it is easy to catch, but some fakes are pretty sophisticated. It has turned out to be even more lucrative for the Chinese to prey upon themselves and the fakery there has grown wildly out of control.

I'm still getting 3.40% on one savings account and 4.15% on one 3-year CD, but most of my accounts have already fallen lower.

The past few years, and particularly the past 12 months, have been quite anomalous for gold and silver to say the least. Valuation has leaped for both, though gold is more likely to retain more of its gains than erratic silver. Both have outperformed nearly every other investment, but that's not typical or sustainable. But at the same time gold might still go to $6000 before mid-2026.

People have to do what's right for them, everyone's situation is different. My goal is just to stretch what I have for as long as I can. I never inherited generational wealth such as farmland.
 
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Silver continues jump up and down like a crazy monkey, but that's its nature when it comes out of decade-long lulls. Many individuals seem to be getting burnt bad when they end up buying high and getting stuck or selling low - if anyone is buying. Coin shops are really underpaying on buybacks today.

Gold remains more stable, as usual, at least in relative terms. We might be in a buying opportunity though, because the Arab States have had trouble moving gold out of the country and this has caused them to sell low and drive the price downward a bit.

Small mints within the US are saying it is hard to get space on flights to bring in gold. Somebody with priority is taking up most of the space for gold on commercial planes. I suspect the Treasury myself. Most of the domestic "big guys" know each other and it doesn't seem to be any of them. But who can say? It's a secretive market when you're talking about refined physical gold.
 
Jacob Petersheim said:
Silver continues jump up and down like a crazy monkey, but that's its nature when it comes out of decade-long lulls. Many individuals seem to be getting burnt bad when they end up buying high and getting stuck or selling low - if anyone is buying. Coin shops are really underpaying on buybacks today.

Gold remains more stable, as usual, at least in relative terms. We might be in a buying opportunity though, because the Arab States have had trouble moving gold out of the country and this has caused them to sell low and drive the price downward a bit.

Small mints within the US are saying it is hard to get space on flights to bring in gold. Somebody with priority is taking up most of the space for gold on commercial planes. I suspect the Treasury myself. Most of the domestic "big guys" know each other and it doesn't seem to be any of them. But who can say? It's a secretive market when you're talking about refined physical gold.
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I think both metals will stabilize in time. Bitcoin not so much.
 
With some time the metals market has corrected from its January highs and settled. But if you "backed up the truck" and bought gold early last week Monday you'd have a 10% gain already. Of course whether the price move holds or not is another matter entirely.
 
Mary Stetler said:
Metals are not an investment, so much as an insurance policy. JMHO
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Metals are an investment just like real estate and other hard assets. Gold doesn't pay returns but it does and has appreciated well ahead of inflation. And for the past nearly 3 years it has actually done far better than most "investments" with appreciate on the order of 100%, 60% in just the past 12 months.

Silver is another animal altogether, almost entirely speculative, chasing gold's runs. But it typically then crashes down to its industrial commodity value and then languishes down there for years until gold's next run. Silver is very poor as a store of value or any kind of "insurance." That's why it is called "the Devil's metal" or simply "sucker's money."

Platinum seems to stand between the two in behavior.

Gold pricing seems to be decoupling from the paper Futures now. It appears to be once more driven by supply and demand (miners and central banks) and currency debasement (money printing, debt, real inflation - not consumer price rises).

No, mtals most definately are investments. Just not risky high-flyers like stocks. Holding metals is more like buying bonds, except that bonds are now doing poorer every day now.

Gold also has no counter-party risk. If you hold it, you own it. Stocks, bonds, cash savings can all tank to 0 or be frozen locking them out of your grasp. This has happened many times historically, has been happening in recent years, and is going on right now.

Fewer than 1 in 200 in the US hold any metals at all unless you include a little junk gold (jewelry) or silverware heirlooms. Far fewer than that are properly invested in metals, current advice being 20 to 25% of your entire portfolio, and higher than that in retirement.
 
Jacob Petersheim said:
Metals are an investment just like real estate and other hard assets. Gold doesn't pay returns but it does and has appreciated well ahead of inflation. And for the past nearly 3 years it has actually done far better than most "investments" with appreciate on the order of 100%, 60% in just the past 12 months.

Silver is another animal altogether, almost entirely speculative, chasing gold's runs. But it typically then crashes down to its industrial commodity value and then languishes down there for years until gold's next run. Silver is very poor as a store of value or any kind of "insurance." That's why it is called "the Devil's metal" or simply "sucker's money."

Platinum seems to stand between the two in behavior.

Gold pricing seems to be decoupling from the paper Futures now. It appears to be once more driven by supply and demand (miners and central banks) and currency debasement (money printing, debt, real inflation - not consumer price rises).

No, mtals most definately are investments. Just not risky high-flyers like stocks. Holding metals is more like buying bonds, except that bonds are now doing poorer every day now.

Gold also has no counter-party risk. If you hold it, you own it. Stocks, bonds, cash savings can all tank to 0 or be frozen locking them out of your grasp. This has happened many times historically, has been happening in recent years, and is going on right now.

Fewer than 1 in 200 in the US hold any metals at all unless you include a little junk gold (jewelry) or silverware heirlooms. Far fewer than that are properly invested in metals, current advice being 20 to 25% of your entire portfolio, and higher than that in retirement.
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I bought in the eighties and held. The monetary value collapsed. I held. It went on slowly then all of a sudden people and governments realized the value and were planning to stop manipulating the prices. Metals always had value. But it was hidden by the powers that be via fiat money.
 
Mary Stetler said:
I bought in the eighties and held. The monetary value collapsed.
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But what happened at the start of the 1980s?

Interest rates on Treasuries went to 20% in order to break stagflation. That was a time to put money into savings accounts, which were paying 7% and far higher on CDs and such.

That and the forced "ending" of the Hunt Brothers' silvr run were both strong signals NOT to invest in metals.

We are in very different times. Interest rates are low and will be suppressed even further as soon as it can be managed. Real inflation (money printing) is another issue. The two of those almost make any interest you can get on cash effectively 0 and soon heading negative.

This is exactly where gold comes in. Even ignoring the recent price run-up central bank buying started several years ago and has not let up. The only counter you see is in places like Turkey, selling off gold to raise Dollars to cover the petroleum problems due to Iran. France had a big sel-off in New York, but took the Dollars and repurchased all of their gold at home. This was to avoid transport costs and foot-dragging by London bankers who control the New York market and many gold vaults on the Eastern seaboard.
 
Jacob Petersheim said:
But what happened at the start of the 1980s?

Interest rates on Treasuries went to 20% in order to break stagflation. That was a time to put money into savings accounts, which were paying 7% and far higher on CDs and such.

That and the forced "ending" of the Hunt Brothers' silvr run were both strong signals NOT to invest in metals.

We are in very different times. Interest rates are low and will be suppressed even further as soon as it can be managed. Real inflation (money printing) is another issue. The two of those almost make any interest you can get on cash effectively 0 and soon heading negative.

This is exactly where gold comes in. Even ignoring the recent price run-up central bank buying started several years ago and has not let up. The only counter you see is in places like Turkey, selling off gold to raise Dollars to cover the petroleum problems due to Iran. France had a big sel-off in New York, but took the Dollars and repurchased all of their gold at home. This was to avoid transport costs and foot-dragging by London bankers who control the New York market and many gold vaults on the Eastern seaboard.
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Metals are not the only thing to have. What one may have 'lost' over time has now been made up and then some. Like occasional stock 'crashes'.
 
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