My Bible study
- Thread starter Von Jones
- Start date
Bobby Cole
Well-known member
Hey Von, just a question. Which version of the Bible do you study?
Matthew 6: 9-13 in the KJV does end with the statement “for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen”
It’s a given that Jesus was teaching his disciples a basic formula or rather, diagram for prayer so maybe some version designers thought the last statement to be superfluous. Dunno.
I’ll look at a few more translations and see what I can come up with.
I have the KJV and was reading in the book of Luke. I was just curious and Google did show Bible versions that did say it. I have to remember that in the New Testament gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that they have their own individual experiences.
Faye Fox
Well-known member
You might have noticed that the Lords Prayer in Luke. didn't end in amen and differs from the one in Mathew ending in amen. Since amen means, I approve, it has always seemed foolish to me to say a prayer and then say I approve. If you didn't approve, why say it? It seems to me the listeners should say amen, if they approve. Just my opinion, but I don't think either prayer was meant to be uttered verbatim, but just an example of what to pray for and the state of mind acceptable to the almighty.
Example ---- Forgive me Lord as I have forgiven others. What Christ is teaching here is forgiving others before you ask for forgiveness for yourself. In others words if you haven't forgiven those that wronged you, but seek forgiveness yourself, then your prayer is in vain. The examples after the prayer in both Mathew and Luke, are more important than the prayer itself, in my opinion.
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Bobby Cole
Well-known member
Not to be too corrective but Amen is sooo much more than an approval but rather, the literal definition of it is an affirmative statement of “So Be It”.
As I and many others have taught, even though the word Amen hangs back there at the ending of a prayer, it isn’t the end of something but rather a full statement that initiates the very start of something. God will answer my prayers. It will be done. God will provide. So be it.
In essence, it’s a word indicating full faith that what is asked for, God will provide.
When I was teaching in Boise, I asked my classes to temporarily bypass the singular word of Amen and start thinking of and saying “so be it” in order to help them envision and mentally emphasize in their minds the amount of power their faith in God has.
The technique also aligns itself with the teachings of Jesus in regard to our faith and how much power that faith can have.
Deliver us from evil……so be it.
James Gale
Active member
Nicely put.
Don Alaska
Well-known member
Want confusion? Here is a long video about Bible translations. Only watch if you are truly curious about the Bible.
Krystal Shay
Well-known member
I think I watched a special on PBS years ago about the meaning of some words in the bible; what they meant. In this TV show, there were 7 theologians discussing what one word meant and they couldn’t agree on the meaning of it. They actually argued about who was right and who was wrong.
Don Alaska
Well-known member
That is what they do. In the old days, people were willing to die over the meaning of a word.I think I watched a special on PBS years ago about the meaning of some words in the bible; what they meant. In this TV show, there were 7 theologians discussing what one word meant and they couldn’t agree on the meaning of it. They actually argued about who was right and who was wrong.
Faye Fox
Well-known member
They still are.
Faye Fox
Well-known member
The reason is one version is from the King James bible and the other from the Catholic bible. The reason is the ancient text used in translation, by the Catholics, differed from the one used by King James. I hope that answers your question.
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While at my son's house last week I had a conversation with my third stair-step granddaughter about how Judas Iscariot died. Ironically, I had just read about it. She said that he killed himself per her religion studies teacher. Mind you she is eight years old. I said that's not what I read. So this went back to her teacher who then said "She must have a different religion." (I kept my composure) but said, 'It has nothing to do with religion but God's word.' very firmly.
So after finding the two versions of Judas Iscariot's death and then googling it. My detective mode kicked in.
Suicide (Matthew) versus Karma (Acts).
So after finding the two versions of Judas Iscariot's death and then googling it. My detective mode kicked in.
Suicide (Matthew) versus Karma (Acts).
Beth Gallagher
Well-known member
Von, are you back home now? I hope they got your power restored and things back to normal.
Yes, back home on the 24th so the repair could be done. I still have the tree to be removed so normal is still a ways off. The raccoons already found the tree leaning against the house so I pulled out the cowbell and went at it for two nights.
Don Alaska
Well-known member
Catholics include the Doxology, but it is separated from the prayer. Apparently Queen Elizabeth I added the doxology as part of the prayer just to make it different from the Catholic version.
In a sense, this is one thing I've liked about some passionate Jews. They passionately argue their faith, and through the process learn from the other person and refine their own beliefs. Christians seem to be more passive about it, sitting in the pews and listening to a lecture.I think I watched a special on PBS years ago about the meaning of some words in the bible; what they meant. In this TV show, there were 7 theologians discussing what one word meant and they couldn’t agree on the meaning of it. They actually argued about who was right and who was wrong.
Literal translations are impossible enough from one language to another, much less going through 3 or more languages. Then there's the thumb of Man on the scales.
There are two translation issues that stick in my mind:
-"Thou Shalt Not Kill" was really written "Thou Shalt Not Murder," meaning there is justifiable homicide and we're not commanded to lead a passive life.
-Being commanded to go to church is an intentional, self-serving mis-translation of [I believe] Paul telling the newly converted Jews to continue to attend synagogue in order to support each other in their new faith. As far as I am aware, we are not commanded to go into one of those institutions every Sunday (which ain't the sabbath.)
I've sought out Bible study groups, but they all seem to be a marketing tool for a specific church.
James Gale
Active member
If only we can all realize that man made religions are not the true faith , we would be much better off . In the beginning of the Christian faith Jesus words and way of life is the true way , honor the Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit and be the best you can and help your fellow man . Get back to that and we would be much better off than arguing over who's right or wrong about meaning of a word .
Yeh, but then there's the "just being a humanitarian won't get you into Heaven" position. (edit to add: I know that's not what you said.) I think the concern over being imperfect is part of a fear-driven faith (believe or suffer forever!), but I don't want to wander too far afield here.
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James Gale
Active member
I agree, wandering to far afield only opens up to many doors to be understood , I will just stick to basic belief and try to live as God would want me to , easier said than done I know lol.