Generators, Solar Panels, Alternate Power Sources

[Faye Fox]

Solar panels only are good for emergency power if they are independent of the grid power lines and have a sufficient battery storage and invertor. They are worthless is any areas of high winds. The best and least inexpensive emergency power is a natural or propane gas powered generator.

The best setup, imo, is not the instant transfer switch, but having an electrician install a double throw, double pole, switch that cuts off line power and connects power panel to a 220 volt 200 amp receptacle. The line coming from the generator can be plugged in there and since not hard wired, gets around a lot of electrical codes.

Simply mount your whole house generator away from houses as far as possible, build insulated walls around it and make an exhaust chimney. Out of sight, out of mind. When power fails, fire it up, throw disconnect power line to connect generator DPDT switch, plug in heavy cable from generator, throw on breaker at generator and let there be light.

Since no hard automated connection to the main line, but rather manual connection to your main panel input, and runs on bottled gas, then no one needs to get involved that represents companies requiring permits and all kind of mind boggling regulations.

 

[Ken Anderson]

I was talking about backup solar generation. I'm not sure how it works when it's tied to the grid, but I would accept that if it's tied to the grid, meaning that your solar would contribute to the grid, not to you personally. I don't have solar, but my generator is wired into the house so that I can plug things into the generator without running wires outside, but it's separate from the grid.

If I were to get solar, I would use it similarly, having it power a few electric sockets, disconnected from the electric grid so that I could maybe plug the freezer and a computer into it.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

When I was living more or less “off-grid” in Idaho, I had a Lister Diesel generator that I could use, but only used it about once a day. During that time, it cooled the refrigerator and also ran the washing machine and electric stove in my little trailer house. So, I ran the generator, cooked food, washed laundry, quick shower, and then in a couple of hours, shut it back down again.

I had to haul water in two 55 gallon drums in the back of my Mazda pickup, so I had one of those small Hoover washing machines that I used for laundry, and always took a very short shower.
I had a hookup that was for an RV that was connected to batteries, and that would pump the water from the drum into the house for me to use for washing.
I actually had four of those 55 gallon drums altogether, two sitting out behind the trailer to siphon the house water into, and the two in the back of the truck to haul the water.

Since I also had a horse, a milk goat, and the dogs, plus a tiny garden area; I pretty much had to haul water home every day. One day it went to fill the horse trough and the garden, and the next day, it went for the house water.
This only worked in the summer, because in the winter, everything froze solid, and the only water I had in the house was from snow that I brought in with two 5-gallon buckets and dumped into the bathtub to thaw, so I could use the toilet. When I got home from work, then I carried in enough snow to fill the bathtub and a good-sized garbage can that I used to store water in as well.

In the winter, I stopped at the laundromat on my way home from work at night, washed clothes and used their bathroom large sink to wash myself with.
I brought home gallons of drinking water from work, and sometimes, leftover food that was going to be thrown out anyway.
I still had to haul water for the horses, but eventually, I had power hooked up to the property, so that I actually had electricity and was able to sell the generator.

 

[Beth Gallagher]

I was talking about backup solar generation. I'm not sure how it works when it's tied to the grid, but I would accept that if it's tied to the grid, meaning that your solar would contribute to the grid, not to you personally. I don't have solar, but my generator is wired into the house so that I can plug things into the generator without running wires outside, but it's separate from the grid.

If I were to get solar, I would use it similarly, having it power a few electric sockets, disconnected from the electric grid so that I could maybe plug the freezer and a computer into it.

This is basically the kind of off-grid solar that RVers use. They cover the top of their RV with solar panels and have a battery bank to store the energy plus an inverter and charge controller. So if a person were to get solar panels for off-grid, they'd need a way to store the energy. @Jacob Petersheim knows a lot about this stuff, but I don't.

My husband and I have concluded that at this stage of the game, we're not seeing the need to spend $20k on an emergency power backup for our house and we have zero interest in solar panels. We have a portable gasoline generator that will get us through a temporary (multiple days) outage just fine.

 

[Beth Gallagher]

When I was living more or less “off-grid” in Idaho, I had a Lister Diesel generator that I could use, but only used it about once a day. During that time, it cooled the refrigerator and also ran the washing machine and electric stove in my little trailer house. So, I ran the generator, cooked food, washed laundry, quick shower, and then in a couple of hours, shut it back down again.

I had to haul water in two 55 gallon drums in the back of my Mazda pickup, so I had one of those small Hoover washing machines that I used for laundry, and always took a very short shower.
I had a hookup that was for an RV that was connected to batteries, and that would pump the water from the drum into the house for me to use for washing.
I actually had four of those 55 gallon drums altogether, two sitting out behind the trailer to siphon the house water into, and the two in the back of the truck to haul the water.

Since I also had a horse, a milk goat, and the dogs, plus a tiny garden area; I pretty much had to haul water home every day. One day it went to fill the horse trough and the garden, and the next day, it went for the house water.
This only worked in the summer, because in the winter, everything froze solid, and the only water I had in the house was from snow that I brought in with two 5-gallon buckets and dumped into the bathtub to thaw, so I could use the toilet. When I got home from work, then I carried in enough snow to fill the bathtub and a good-sized garbage can that I used to store water in as well.

In the winter, I stopped at the laundromat on my way home from work at night, washed clothes and used their bathroom large sink to wash myself with.
I brought home gallons of drinking water from work, and sometimes, leftover food that was going to be thrown out anyway.
I still had to haul water for the horses, but eventually, I had power hooked up to the property, so that I actually had electricity and was able to sell the generator.

That's the kind of life for a young person!! I can barely keep up with dust bunnies around here so I don't see myself hauling water. In severe cold snaps in winter, we cut our water off to keep the pipes from freezing. Of course we have an entire swimming pool to use for flushing the toilets! I also fill up bathtubs and a bunch of pots with water.

 

[Ken Anderson]

I'd like to know more about solar than I do. I know that an inverter will allow you to plug regular electric devices into a solar grid, but that you could save energy by (I think it's) 12-volt devices that won't need the inverter. I could be off-base here.

 

[Yvonne Smith]

That's the kind of life for a young person!! I can barely keep up with dust bunnies around here so I don't see myself hauling water. In severe cold snaps in winter, we cut our water off to keep the pipes from freezing. Of course we have an entire swimming pool to use for flushing the toilets! I also fill up bathtubs and a bunch of pots with water.

I so totally agree with you, Beth ! I was in my mid-50’s when I moved back to north Idaho, and it was an empty , logged over piece of property that had been in the family since the Great Depression, when my folks lived there, but there was no house or buildings anymore then.

I bought an old single wide trailer, and started clearing off the brush from the logging, drove in and out on the old logging road to get back to where the trailer was.
Eventually, I got a septic put in, power run back to the trailer house, and finally, was able to get water there; but it was hard for me even back then, and would be impossible to even think about doing something like that now.
I am grateful each and every day to have a bathroom with running water, heat for the house, and electric lights that turn on and off.

 

[Beth Gallagher]

I'd like to know more about solar than I do. I know that an inverter will allow you to plug regular electric devices into a solar grid, but that you could save energy by (I think it's) 12-volt devices that won't need the inverter. I could be off-base here.

I don't know anything about electrical stuff really. I just know that at this point in time, my husband and I have lost interest in throwing $20k at a "possible problem". Of course when the next storm hits, we will be pissed that we're sitting in the dark.

 

[Marie Miller]

When I was living more or less “off-grid” in Idaho, I had a Lister Diesel generator that I could use, but only used it about once a day. During that time, it cooled the refrigerator and also ran the washing machine and electric stove in my little trailer house. So, I ran the generator, cooked food, washed laundry, quick shower, and then in a couple of hours, shut it back down again.

I had to haul water in two 55 gallon drums in the back of my Mazda pickup, so I had one of those small Hoover washing machines that I used for laundry, and a very short shower.
I had a hookup that was for an RV that was connected to batteries, and that would pump the water from the drum into the house for me to use for washing.
I actually had four of those 55 gallon drums altogether, two sitting out behind the trailer to siphon the house water into, and the two in the back of the truck to haul the water.

Since I also had a horse, a milk goat, and the dogs, plus a tiny garden area; I pretty much had to haul water home every day. One day it went to fill the house trough and the garden, and the next day, it went for the house water.
This only worked in the summer, because in the winter, everything froze solid, and the only water I had in the house was from snow that I brought in with two 5-gallon buckets and dumped into the bathtub to thaw, so I could use the toilet. When I got home from work, then I carried in enough snow to fill the bathtub and a good-sized garbage can that I used to store water in as well.

In the winter, I stopped at the laundromat on my way home from work at night, washed clothes and used their bathroom large sink to wash myself with.
I brought home gallons of drinking water from work, and sometimes, leftover food that was going to be thrown out anyway.
I still had to haul water for the horses, but eventually, I had power hooked up to the property, so that I actually had electricity and was able to sell the generator.

This sounds familiar Yvonne!
A beekeepers 1789 log cabin at 1850 meters above sea level with running water from a cow trough fed

I was talking about backup solar generation. I'm not sure how it works when it's tied to the grid, but I would accept that it's tied to the grid, meaning that your solar would contribute to the grid, not to you personally. I don't have solar, but my generator is wired into the house so that I can plug things into the generator without running wires outside, but it's separate from the grid.

If I were to get solar, I would use it similarly, having it power a few electric sockets, disconnected from the electric grid so that I could maybe plug the freezer and a computer into it.

by an ice spring about 500 feet away. That is a long walk with a bucket when the cows come home. Teenager with raging hormones and long hair on a sail boat in the back then Yugoslav islands - one bottle of water and that was it. I volunteered to go on land with a caned 10 liter amphora on the small islands to buy wine and bread. It was a chance for running fresh water over my hair.

I was talking about backup solar generation. I'm not sure how it works when it's tied to the grid, but I would accept that it's tied to the grid, meaning that your solar would contribute to the grid, not to you personally. I don't have solar, but my generator is wired into the house so that I can plug things into the generator without running wires outside, but it's separate from the grid.

If I were to get solar, I would use it similarly, having it power a few electric sockets, disconnected from the electric grid so that I could maybe plug the

 

[Jacob Petersheim]

Solar panels only are good for emergency power if they are independent of the grid power lines and have a sufficient battery storage and invertor. They are worthless is any areas of high winds. The best and least inexpensive emergency power is a natural or propane gas powered generator.

Well I'm just using portable panels designed for camping and such.

Friday after uncabling I left them out sitting, ready to move in the morning to catch the rays from the East.

These sat there as our storms hit with very high straight-line winds, tornado sirens blaring. I went out to bring them in but the whipping wind was throwing fat raindrops hard and bringing down clumps of leaves and large tree limbs. I resigned myself to turning back and letting the panels fend for themselves. As I went in something hit the neighbors' garage and there was a large crack and bright blue-white sparks.

Next day all 4 sets of panels were right where I had left them. The yard was full of crap I'm still clearing away. These sat loose, not anchored in any way. Winds were in excess of 70 MPH. Luck? Maybe. But all 4 undisturbed? These are even fairly light weight examples as well. 55 x 32 inches, 12.4 pounds each.

 

[Faye Fox]

I'd like to know more about solar than I do. I know that an inverter will allow you to plug regular electric devices into a solar grid, but that you could save energy by (I think it's) 12-volt devices that won't need the inverter. I could be off-base here.

The invertor changes DC to AC. A convertor changes AC to DC.

There are all kinds of system these days. Back in the 80s I wired my cabin for 120 VAC (I used 12 gauge instead of 14 and used polarized receptacles) but used 12 VDC for years until they brought up the power lines and then all I had to do was install a different main panel. I used 12 v instead of 24 or 48 because of all the RV 12v appliances and lightening available.

I had both deep cycle RV batteries and long life nickel iron batteries. I had solar panels, a small wind generator, and a alternator on a wheel in the creek. The only time I had to use the Honda generator to charge the batteries, was during the winter, when the water wheel wasn't turning due to freezing, no wind, and lots of overcast.

I chose the 12 volt over using an invertor, because invertors were not as efficient then and it would require a larger battery bank, thus more running the gas generator.

Even today with all the advances in solar and wind, solar cells don't work at night and if no wind, then turbines don't turn.