Colonoscopies

[Tony Nathanson]

I guess I should clarify. I hate the idea that a senior forum is the best forum for one my age and medical status. I don't hate the forum format or age restrictions or anyone on it, just that I fit in best with a bunch of old folks, that for the most part have lost or are losing their sense of humor.

Now at 75, half way between the rookie seniors at 50 and the last of those veteran dinosaurs that reach age 100, I find my sense of humor is fading. I haven't lost it, but the material that I have to work with is tragic. I mean, things like denture jokes, that no one wearing those torture hunks of plastic, laughs about, because it is all to real.

I am an advocate for routine colonoscopies, at least till age 80, but the prep, the drinking of antifreeze is brutal. When such brutality is necessary to save my sorry old keister, and that is the most exciting thing in my life, then I hate that I don't have something fun that is also forum appropriate to post about.

This forum is great with lots of threads, things like what did you have for breakfast, lunch, and supper, but since I eat the same thing almost every day, my repetition becomes mundane.

HAHA - Colonoscopies. When I do see my doctor for insulin Rx refill, his trained receptionist tries to sell me several medical screenings including a colonoscopy, which I've never had. I always reply, "Well, I'll think about it." I'm 73 & still thinking.

 

[Faye Fox]

HAHA - Colonoscopies. When I do see my doctor for insulin Rx refill, his trained receptionist tries to sell me several medical screenings including a colonoscopy, which I've never had. I always reply, "Well, I'll think about it." I'm 73 & still thinking.

If not for routine colonoscopies, I would be dead now. Nothing to a colonoscopy other than the prep is a bit unfun, but it is an easy way to remove precancer polyps. Even with having the procedure, at least every 3 years, some years two in a year, I still had a large cancer that cost me 1/3rd of my colon. Always have a doctor that does a lot of them, do it. Colon cancer is serious business, Tony.

 

[Tony Nathanson]

If not for routine colonoscopies, I would be dead now. Nothing to a colonoscopy other than the prep is a bit unfun, but it is an easy way to remove precancer polyps. Even with having the procedure, at least every 3 years, some years two in a year, I still had a large cancer that cost me 1/3rd of my colon. Always have a doctor that does a lot of them, do it. Colon cancer is serious business, Tony.

Yes, colon cancer is serious business, but.....
How often do colonoscopies detect cancer?

Less than 1% to 2% of routine screening colonoscopies result in a finding of cancer. However, the exact rate depends on whether the procedure is for routine screening or a diagnostic evaluation, as well as the patient's age and symptoms.
Routine Screening: Cancer is found in less than \(1\%\) of asymptomatic individuals undergoing average-risk screening.
Diagnostic Evaluations: If a colonoscopy is performed because a patient has symptoms—such as gastrointestinal bleeding or abdominal pain—cancer is detected in about (2%) to (4%) of procedures.
To each his own. For me, not worth the risk.

Interesting that your experience bears this out. Your frequent colonoscopies failed to detect (as you said) "A large cancer." I would be asking my doctor why colonoscopies failed to detect it, since that is their advertised purpose.
Much like doctors recommending yearly flu shots & their patients getting the flu, anyway.
Sooner or later, wise people will be asking questions.....like...."What's wrong with this picture?"

 

[Faye Fox]

Yes, colon cancer is serious business, but.....
How often do colonoscopies detect cancer?

Less than 1% to 2% of routine screening colonoscopies result in a finding of cancer. However, the exact rate depends on whether the procedure is for routine screening or a diagnostic evaluation, as well as the patient's age and symptoms.
Routine Screening: Cancer is found in less than \(1\%\) of asymptomatic individuals undergoing average-risk screening.
Diagnostic Evaluations: If a colonoscopy is performed because a patient has symptoms—such as gastrointestinal bleeding or abdominal pain—cancer is detected in about (2%) to (4%) of procedures.
To each his own. For me, not worth the risk.

Interesting that your experience bears this out. Your frequent colonoscopies failed to detect (as you said) "A large cancer." I would be asking my doctor why colonoscopies failed to detect it, since that is their advertised purpose.
Much like doctors recommending yearly flu shots & their patients getting the flu, anyway.
Sooner or later, wise people will be asking questions.....like...."What's wrong with this picture?"

They didn't fail to detect it, it grew big around but flat in under 3 years. They took photos of my entire colon and the previous photos don't show even a polyp there. Not all colon cancer is slow growing. I don't think you are reading the data right. If 100 people have a routine colonoscopy, maybe 2 will have a cancerous polyp. That doesn't mean they missed any, just that a low percentage of people tested, have cancerous polyps. A much larger percentage of people have polyps that are removed and test non cancerous, but in time would become cancer.

One reason doctors have problems finding colon cancer, is a patient is poorly cleaned out. Stats show that the modern colonoscopy has detected cancer at a 69% increase over methods like fecal test. Also they have increased the survival rate of patients to 88%.

By the time symptoms show up or a fecal test shows anything, your survival rate is usually very low. Cancer screening is a personal decision and for me a easy one to make.

 

[John Wick]

Colonoscopy? You can always do the poop in a box test. Not invasive and still accurate.

As far as hemorrhoids? I guess I was just lucky because it was a full on surgical procedure that was just as painful as people say it is. Of course they don't warn you there is a good chance you will end up with more later on

As far as the Senior Forum? I have met some really nice people there. However it is very restrictive and censored, and that is definitely putting a damper on my enthusiasm and participation

 

[Faye Fox]

Colonoscopy? You can always do the poop in a box test. Not invasive and still accurate.

As far as hemorrhoids? I guess I was just lucky because it was a full on surgical procedure that was just as painful as people say it is. Of course they don't warn you there is a good chance you will end up with more later on

As far as the Senior Forum? I have met some really nice people there. However it is very restrictive and censored, and that is definitely putting a damper on my enthusiasm and participation

Accurate if you have cancer that is so bad it is bleeding. About the only cancer the poop sample test shows, is metastasized. The thing about the scope is it also has a tool for removing polyps so they can be biopsied. Also the colon can be examined for other disease.

Endoscopy and Colonoscopy have saved many lives. Recently a long time friend died because he wouldn't get a colonoscopy until his poop test showed cancer. The scope confirmed a large cancer and surgery removed it with half his colon. It biopsied stage 4 and scans showed the cancer had spread. He went to Mexico to their famous holistic cancer clinic. He got worse and then decided on chemotherapy. He lived about 9 months and it wasn't a pleasant existence.

Men seem to be the worst about getting a colonoscopy. I think they see it as an assault on their being a male, perhaps an insult on their masculinity. Some men had rather die a horrible death than get a life saving colon invasion. The thing about being female is invasive procedures are just a way of life.

Males have no problem invading the female body, but suggest the male undergo a possibility life saving invasion that they will not even remember, and they run, hide, and poop in a box. Very few can change a ripe baby diaper, but they can take a popsicle stick and smear fecal matter into a container some poor lab worker has to test. I suppose it is a, me Tarzan, you Jane thing.

 

[Tony Nathanson]

Accurate if you have cancer that is so bad it is bleeding. About the only cancer the poop sample test shows, is metastasized. The thing about the scope is it also has a tool for removing polyps so they can be biopsied. Also the colon can be examined for other disease.

Endoscopy and Colonoscopy have saved many lives. Recently a long time friend died because he wouldn't get a colonoscopy until his poop test showed cancer. The scope confirmed a large cancer and surgery removed it with half his colon. It biopsied stage 4 and scans showed the cancer had spread. He went to Mexico to their famous holistic cancer clinic. He got worse and then decided on chemotherapy. He lived about 9 months and it wasn't a pleasant existence.

Men seem to be the worst about getting a colonoscopy. I think they see it as an assault on their being a male, perhaps an insult on their masculinity. Some men had rather die a horrible death than get a life saving colon invasion. The thing about being female is invasive procedures are just a way of life.

Males have no problem invading the female body, but suggest the male undergo a possibility life saving invasion that they will not even remember, and they run, hide, and poop in a box. Very few can change a ripe baby diaper, but they can take a popsicle stick and smear fecal matter into a container some poor lab worker has to test. I suppose it is a, me Tarzan, you Jane thing.

It is common for individuals to assume a medical screening could have saved someone's life. But it is more likely that your long-time friend's cancer wouldn't have been detected until it was advanced, because (as I posted previously),
Less than 1% to 2% of routine screening colonoscopies result in a finding of cancer. However, the exact rate depends on whether the procedure is for routine screening or a diagnostic evaluation, as well as the patient's age and symptoms.
Routine Screening: Cancer is found in less than 1% of asymptomatic individuals undergoing average-risk screening.
Diagnostic Evaluations: If a colonoscopy is performed because a patient has symptoms—such as gastrointestinal bleeding or abdominal pain—cancer is detected in about (2%) to (4%) of procedures.

 

[Marie Miller]

It is common for individuals to assume a medical screening could have saved someone's life. But it is more likely that your long-time friend's cancer wouldn't have been detected until it was advanced, because (as I posted previously),
Less than 1% to 2% of routine screening colonoscopies result in a finding of cancer. However, the exact rate depends on whether the procedure is for routine screening or a diagnostic evaluation, as well as the patient's age and symptoms.
Routine Screening: Cancer is found in less than 1% of asymptomatic individuals undergoing average-risk screening.
Diagnostic Evaluations: If a colonoscopy is performed because a patient has symptoms—such as gastrointestinal bleeding or abdominal pain—cancer is detected in about (2%) to (4%) of procedures.

OK, the ones who have it discovered have a chance not like in 19something.

 

[Faye Fox]

It is common for individuals to assume a medical screening could have saved someone's life. But it is more likely that your long-time friend's cancer wouldn't have been detected until it was advanced, because (as I posted previously),
Less than 1% to 2% of routine screening colonoscopies result in a finding of cancer. However, the exact rate depends on whether the procedure is for routine screening or a diagnostic evaluation, as well as the patient's age and symptoms.
Routine Screening: Cancer is found in less than 1% of asymptomatic individuals undergoing average-risk screening.
Diagnostic Evaluations: If a colonoscopy is performed because a patient has symptoms—such as gastrointestinal bleeding or abdominal pain—cancer is detected in about (2%) to (4%) of procedures.

The stats you post don't mean the scope docs are missing cancer, it means that only 1% to 2% have cancer. 98% don't. That number doesn't reflect pre cancer polyps. It says in cases of gastrointestinal bleeding, that cancer is found (to be the cause) in 2 to 4%. This in no way says that they missed cancer causing the bleeding, just that the scope ruled out cancer and then the docs look for other causes of the bleeding.

Stats released by several well known medical establishments, say that colonoscopies find 94% of all colon cancer. 6% is missed and usually due to poor preparation. Precancer polyps are found and removed at a lower rate but still over 60%.

Routine screening isn't done because they think someone has cancer, it is done to check for and remove precancerous polyps, IE prevent cancer. It is also done to look for other colon disease.

 

[Tony Nathanson]

The stats you post don't mean the scope docs are missing cancer, it means that only 1% to 2% have cancer. 98% don't. That number doesn't reflect pre cancer polyps. It says in cases of gastrointestinal bleeding, that cancer is found (to be the cause) in 2 to 4%. This in no way says that they missed cancer causing the bleeding, just that the scope ruled out cancer and then the docs look for other causes of the bleeding.

Stats released by several well known medical establishments, say that colonoscopies find 94% of all colon cancer. 6% is missed and usually due to poor preparation. Precancer polyps are found and removed at a lower rate but still over 60%.

Routine screening isn't done because they think someone has cancer, it is done to check for and remove precancerous polyps, IE prevent cancer. It is also done to look for other colon disease.

No surprise that medical establishments exaggerate the benefits of colonoscopies. Medicine is a business.
I've had several dentists recommend dental implants, telling me the success rate is 98%, when the fact is, dental implants have the highest failure rate of any medical procedure - more so with older patients & those with diabetes like myself. We can't expect complete honesty from a dentist when he has a chance to make $50,000.00. It all boils down to money. It's wise to do our own research. Knowledge keeps us safer.

 

[Janine Rose]

I've had three Colonoscopies in my adult years.

First two with Sedation. Last one 'without' sedation.

Small polyps removed in all three procedures .

I also do the Cologuard tests.

 

[Faye Fox]

I've had three Colonoscopies in my adult years.

First two with Sedation. Last one 'without' sedation.

Small polyps removed in all three procedures .

I also do the Cologuard tests.

I can't imagine one without sedation. I woke up briefly while having one where it took longer than expected due to multiple polyp removal, and it wasn't pleasant. They quickly knocked me out again.

I am surprised at all the older folks opposed to having a colonoscopy when they have been proven and computers record detailed photos that other doctors can double check if they feel something was missed.

Cancer is found in 1 in a 1000 colonoscopies, but precancer is found in 250 out of 1000 colonoscopies, plus it can be removed successfully during the procedure. So while 1 in 1,000 don't have cancer, the odds are much higher for precancer. For folks over 50, the odds increase with age. The question is, are you 1 of the 75% with no precancer or are you in the 25% that does?

I wouldn't recommend any senior use an inexperienced doctor.

My endoscopies and colonoscopies are done by a Gastrointestinal Oncologist Surgeon.

 

[Krystal Shay]

I have had 4 colonoscopies starting at age 45. My dad died from colon cancer 26 years ago. My dad’s colon rectal surgeon recommended that all of us kids get a colonoscopy because in some cases it could be hereditary. None of my dad’s brothers, sisters, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins have ever had colon cancer, but my dad did.

I may change my mind, but for now I think I have had enough colonoscopies. The procedure was hard on me. The first one, I had a bad reaction to the sedative. My husband was running around the hospital yelling for a nurse. The second one, I woke up during the procedure and it was horribly painful. The next one, while I was under, I seen 2 dead people hoovering over me looking down; watching me. I told the doctor that I seen dead people! The last one I had, my colon went into spasm because I have a kinky colon. The doctor couldn’t complete the scope so they wheeled me to x-ray to have a barium enema. What fun that was!! Good thing I was a little sedated because it was a bit painful. Afterwards, The nurse warned me to not be alarmed if my poop was white for a few days. It was caused from the enema. In all of the colonoscopies I have had, I have never had a single polyp or any other discoveries in my colon. So that is good news.

 

[Faye Fox]

I have had 4 colonoscopies starting at age 45. My dad died from colon cancer 26 years ago. My dad’s colon rectal surgeon recommended that all of us kids get a colonoscopy because in some cases it could be hereditary. None of my dad’s brothers, sisters, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins have ever had colon cancer, but my dad did.

I may change my mind, but for now I think I have had enough colonoscopies. The procedure was hard on me. The first one, I had a bad reaction to the sedative. My husband was running around the hospital yelling for a nurse. The second one, I woke up during the procedure and it was horribly painful. The next one, while I was under, I seen 2 dead people hoovering over me looking down; watching me. I told the doctor that I seen dead people! The last one I had, my colon went into spasm because I have a kinky colon. The doctor couldn’t complete the scope so they wheeled me to x-ray to have a barium enema. What fun that was!! Good thing I was a little sedated because it was a bit painful. Afterwards, The nurse warned me to not be alarmed if my poop was white for a few days. It was caused from the enema. In all of the colonoscopies I have had, I have never had a single polyp or any other discoveries in my colon. So that is good news.

If no polyps or disease, then I wouldn't worry about having anymore. If you need to for some reason, go to a specialist.

Diabetics get colon cancer at a 47% higher rate than non diabetics. This is well documented and has been for years.

 

[Beth Gallagher]

I had a similar experience to @Krystal Shay . My father also died from cancer in his colon, but I didn't realize for many years that it was not colon cancer. He had melanoma (skin cancer) that had metastasized to his colon. My dad had several melanomas removed over the years due to all the sun damage he experienced as a farmer. At one point he had a large skin graft from his thigh to the back of his neck, and the top of one of his ears removed. Melanoma is no joke.

So I had one clear colonoscopy about 12 years ago (no polyps) and I haven't had one since. I have no plans to ever have another one unless I have some kind of issues, and maybe not even then. I've decided that I won't ever go through cancer treatment again, so I don't plan on any additional screening.

The only reason I see my oncologist annually now is to keep my "active patient" status at MD Anderson. If I ever do need them for palliative care I want to be able to call and get right in.

 

[Janine Rose]

I can't imagine one without sedation. I woke up briefly while having one where it took longer than expected due to multiple polyp removal, and it wasn't pleasant. They quickly knocked me out again.

I am surprised at all the older folks opposed to having a colonoscopy when they have been proven and computers record detailed photos that other doctors can double check if they feel something was missed.

Cancer is found in 1 in a 1000 colonoscopies, but precancer is found in 250 out of 1000 colonoscopies, plus it can be removed successfully during the procedure. So while 1 in 1,000 don't have cancer, the odds are much higher for precancer. For folks over 50, the odds increase with age. The question is, are you 1 of the 75% with no precancer or are you in the 25% that does?

I wouldn't recommend any senior use an inexperienced doctor.

My endoscopies and colonoscopies are done by a Gastrointestinal Oncologist Surgeon.

Hi Faye. I don't know that I will do 'no sedation' again next time. I would like to
be done with Colonoscopies. I have to wait until the time comes which will be
in two more years. No sedation went fair but there were about three times during
the procedure I was close to yelling out a few bad words. I had a great nurse who
comforted me.

I am in agreement though with the importance of Colonoscopies. Absolutely.

 

[Tony Nathanson]

If no polyps or disease, then I wouldn't worry about having anymore. If you need to for some reason, go to a specialist.

Diabetics get colon cancer at a 47% higher rate than non diabetics. This is well documented and has been for years.

Could be. But I don't see that as a valid reason to have a risky procedure that has such a poor early detection rate - 1%, and (as you experienced) does not detect cancer until it has significantly spread.
And years ago, I read an interview with a retired surgeon who said, "Polyps are part of the aging process for most people over 45 & they are best left alone. Cutting them allows pathways for cells to migrate, along with normally-present bacteria in the colon."
If I'm more prone to colon cancer being diabetic, well all kinds of other BS is marketed to diabetics:
Special diabetic shoes & socks ($300.00/pair shoes)
Diabetic drinks & protein bars
Diabetic supplements
New diabetic drugs on TV ads to Talk to your doctor about. ♫♫ "A little pill with a big story to tell." ♫♫
Blood thinners, daily aspirin, statins & blood pressure drugs strongly suggested, even though my BP & cholesterol are normal.
And dentists asking me to come in for professional cleaning every 2-3 months & also buy their expensive "Diabetic toothpaste & mouthwash."
I would have much more respect for the medical profession if they operated with more honesty & less profit motivation.
But, I realize they gotta sell lotsa drugs to pay for that singin' & dancin'.

 

[Faye Fox]

Could be. But I don't see that as a valid reason to have a risky procedure that has such a poor early detection rate - 1%, and (as you experienced) does not detect cancer until it has significantly spread.
And years ago, I read an interview with a retired surgeon who said, "Polyps are part of the aging process for most people over 45 & they are best left alone. Cutting them allows pathways for cells to migrate, along with normally-present bacteria in the colon."
If I'm more prone to colon cancer being diabetic, well all kinds of other BS is marketed to diabetics:
Special diabetic shoes & socks ($300.00/pair shoes)
Diabetic drinks & protein bars
Diabetic supplements
New diabetic drugs on TV ads to Talk to your doctor about. ♫♫ "A little pill with a big story to tell." ♫♫
Blood thinners, daily aspirin, statins & blood pressure drugs strongly suggested, even though my BP & cholesterol are normal.
And dentists asking me to come in for professional cleaning every 2-3 months & also buy their expensive "Diabetic toothpaste & mouthwash."
I would have much more respect for the medical profession if they operated with more honesty & less profit motivation.
But, I realize they gotta sell lotsa drugs to pay for that singin' & dancin'.

I guess you don't read what I write. It is a very low risk procedure and has a very high success rate of finding cancer in very early stages. 94% is a very good success rate. Also my colon cancer was stage 1, not penetrating the colon walls or spreading to other organs. It was very flat but big around. The photos from the previous test, 3 years earlier, show nothing there. The photos were very clear and defined. It developed in those 3 years. It wasn't missed, just faster growing and unusual in shape.

I had colonoscopies, once a year for the next two years after surgery, then given 3 years, and now on 5 years which will probably be my last one at age 80. If I show clean at 80, that is good enough for me.

I hope anyone reading this thread will do their own research and understand that the 1% you keep quoting is the percentage of routine colonoscopies with patients that have cancer. If 10,000 people, with no symptoms, are routinely tested, only 100 (1%) will have cancer and 94 (94%) of those 100, will be found. 6 of those patients have their cancer missed due to a poor cleaning preparation or an inexperienced doctor or a doctor that was time rushed.

It is a personal decision to get or not get a colonoscopy, but posting misleading info isn't fair to other seniors that are looking for more info from personal experiences. It is worth repeating to please chose a specialist with lots of experience. Make sure the procedure is done by a doctor with gastrointestinal credentials and experience with seniors.

 

[Tony Nathanson]

I guess you don't read what I write. It is a very low risk procedure and has a very high success rate of finding cancer in very early stages. 94% is a very good success rate. Also my colon cancer was stage 1, not penetrating the colon walls or spreading to other organs. It was very flat but big around. The photos from the previous test, 3 years earlier, show nothing there. The photos were very clear and defined. It developed in those 3 years. It wasn't missed, just faster growing and unusual in shape.

I had colonoscopies, once a year for the next two years after surgery, then given 3 years, and now on 5 years which will probably be my last one at age 80. If I show clean at 80, that is good enough for me.

I hope anyone reading this thread will do their own research and understand that the 1% you keep quoting is the percentage of routine colonoscopies with patients that have cancer. If 10,000 people, with no symptoms, are routinely tested, only 100 (1%) will have cancer and 94 (94%) of those 100, will be found. 6 of those patients have their cancer missed due to a poor cleaning preparation or an inexperienced doctor or a doctor that was time rushed.

It is a personal decision to get or not get a colonoscopy, but posting misleading info isn't fair to other seniors that are looking for more info from personal experiences. It is worth repeating to please chose a specialist with lots of experience. Make sure the procedure is done by a doctor with gastrointestinal credentials and experience with seniors.

I also hope & encourage everyone to do their own research, as I do for any medical suggestion, so they don't take the word of any doctor.
And a "Low-Risk Procedure" doesn't include signing this type of document before they will do it:
Some risks that are specifically related to colonoscopy include, and not limited to:
 Discomfort during the procedure
 Missing the disease, not detecting the condition, misdiagnosis, incomplete exam
 Allergic or adverse reaction to the sedative or other medications administered
 Perforation of the colon, which may require hospitalization, surgery, or disability
 Bleeding (hemorrhage) as a consequence of removing a lesion from within the colon, or from
another intra-abdominal organ
 Infection; this could occur at the IV site, in the gastrointestinal tract, from perforation, or other
 Very rare complications include: Heart attack (myocardial infarction), change in heart
rhythm or stroke; Aspiration (to swallow vomit into the lungs) and/or changes in
breathing function, including respiratory arrest (stop breathing) or seizure.