Who Has More Faith? Believers Or Atheists?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Lara Moss, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    This clever and interesting piece I posted below gives two opposing views depending on whether you read it up or down. I heard an atheist describe it as, "for atheists it's a declaration of freedom and for Christians it's a declaration of faith". But I see both views as a statement of faith because it takes faith to believe either way.

    Both beliefs, that "God does not exist" and that "God does exist" are not scientifically proven...it all boils down to faith on both sides. Believers see proof that a creator exists (God) all around them every day, simply by observing nature, experiencing life and a relationship with God.

    It seems to me that atheists need a whole lot of faith if they look around them and see no proof either way. I'm not talking about what scientists claim to be proof, which is still theory, but what is observed and experienced daily by the individual. Without personally seeing and experiencing proof, wouldn't that take a whole lot of faith?

    An Atheist's View on Life
    I will live my life according to these beliefs
    God does not exist
    It is just foolish to think
    That there is a God with a cosmic plan
    That an all-powerful God brings redemption and healing to the pain and suffering in the world
    Is a comforting thought, however
    It
    Is only wishful thinking
    People can do as they please without eternal consequences
    The idea that
    I am deserving of Hell
    Because of sin
    Is a lie meant to make me a slave to those in power
    "The more you have, the happier you will be"
    Our existence has no grand meaning or purpose
    In a world with no God
    There is freedom to be who I want to be
    But with God
    Everything is fine
    It is ridiculous to think
    I am lost and in need of saving

    A Christian's View on Life
    (read this bottom to top)

    ~Anonymous
     
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  2. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Veteran Member
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    Thanks for the palindrome, Lara, I will be reading up, on it!;)
     
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  3. Tom Locke

    Tom Locke Very Well-Known Member
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    As a long-time atheist, I am more than comfortable with my outlook. My ethos is built on humanist values and respect for other human beings, irrespective of their race, colour, gender, sexuality, beliefs or anything else. I have to say - and I'm not pointing any fingers, please note - that there seem to be a number of so-called Christians that do not share this tolerance.
     
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  4. Joe Riley

    Joe Riley Veteran Member
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    There are many people who use the label Christian, or Atheist, to describe ourselves. Only God can see behind the label, at what is in our hearts! That's good news for all of us!
     
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  5. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Wife and I are Christians, but I have found out that many who say they are Christians simply don't act that way. There are times when I'm sure we don't act like Christians, but we know in our hearts that we are.

    There are a number of people who attend church all the time and say they are Christians, but during the week, they may not act like they are at all.
     
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  6. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    I agree, there are "a number" of those who call themselves Christians but aren't, as well as "a number" of Atheists who lack humanist values...both lack respect and tolerance. Those values are based on the individual, not the group. A true practicing Christian who "walks the talk" is not prejudice of race, color, or gender. When a true Christian is face to face with someone of another belief they are very respectful if they are obeying God's words in the Bible. If a discussion arises over the difference of beliefs, a true Christian will share their faith but if the non-believer doesn't hear it then a true and obedient Christian will walk away from the discussion. That's what God tells believers to do. It's right in the Bible…"walk away". I know some atheists have "humanist values and respect for others" too, like you, Tom.
     
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  7. Ike Willis

    Ike Willis Very Well-Known Member
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    There is a saying, "There are no atheists in foxholes". I guess we'll see who the true atheists and Christians are when the crap hits the fan.
     
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  8. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I was raised Catholic but Im not religious at all but I wont go as far as saying Im an atheist because Im not.

    I did raise my children catholic but they arent religious now either but give their children some religious instructions via classes ot church occasionally. Im sure my grandsons will decide what they want when they grow up.
     
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  9. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    It's hard when we raise our kids a certain way and then, when they're grown, they develop their own beliefs. I am always reminding myself that my children were never "mine". They are God's children and he loaned them to me to raise the best I could. My parenting days are now over unless they come to me and want my help.

    We have to let go and not let it mar our relationship if they have different views. I raised my 4 children myself and we all attended church every Sunday. They were all given the same firm foundation in Christianity. None of us attend church today but still have a close relationship with God….except one. She is more New Age although she claims to have no label. We couldn't disagree more on our faith. I chose to "let go and let God" as the saying goes because she's an adult. Our relationship is as close as ever right now. But I do pray often, in silence, and claim God's promise that He will one day lead his stray lamb back to the fold.
     
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  10. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Im a firm believer in live and let live. I live a good moral life and Im happy to say my children do to....what they believe or dont believe doesnt bother me at all. I know that they are also very involved with their children and trying to lead them the right way and that is good enough for me.

    If they turn out religious...that is fine.

    If they dont...that is also fine, as long as they do the right thing.
     
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  11. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    10962_01.jpg
    "People don't want their lives fixed. Nobody wants their problems solved. Their dramas. Their distractions. Their stories resolved. Their mess cleaned up. Because what would they have left? Just the big scary unknown." ~ Chuck Palahniuk

    Gulp. The sting is in the end (of that quote) for the unbeliever. Just being a listener and not talking about spiritual matters or not trying to fix that empty spot in others is what unbelievers want believers to do. But believers have a strong faith that, one day, we will meet our creator for eternity….it's not a "big unknown out there" for a believer. That once empty void inside is filled completely for a believer and a peace comes over them because the scary unknown is gone forever. It's a joyous perk for having faith.
     
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  12. Corie Henson

    Corie Henson Very Well-Known Member
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    @Lara Moss, that's a very good food for thought not only for the atheists but also to belivers as well. Honestly, I still have to meet an atheist and engage him in a serious talk. Not for anything else but I am amused how a person can believe that there is no God. So many debates have been held to prove the existence of God and the pro always turn out the victor over the anti. Another puzzling thing for me about an atheist is how do they pray? Since there is no God so that means atheists do not pray.

    So when it comes to faith, I'm sure the believers have more of it.
     
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  13. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    Good post Corie, but by definition, "Faith" is believing in something you can't see. A believer in God finds it easy to have even a little faith because, although we can't see God, we "See" God's hand in all existence all around us every minute of every day. Constant reminders of his presence.

    But an atheist is "Blind" to all of the many signs from God surrounding "Existence". Their faith is that there is no God, nothing, no sign of a creator anywhere. Atheists have faith that everything, all form and order, just happened out of chaos for no rhyme nor reason, no origin...that takes an impossible amount of faith to believe in nothingness when we see ordered creation everywhere..

    If you have faith in God
    as small as a grain of mustard seed,
    nothing shall be impossible unto you

    ~ Matthew 17:20
     
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  14. Tom Locke

    Tom Locke Very Well-Known Member
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    The general theme developing here seems to be that atheists are somehow rather slow, dull-witted and stupid people that are incapable of seeing the blindingly obvious. Now I'm an atheist and I have been for a long time. I also think I have a moderate degree of intelligence. I find it rather bizarre that centuries of scientific discovery by some of the finest minds is dismissed with an airy wave of the hand. Quite how intellectual analysis somehow comes behind some wildly fanciful notion of a creator who spent a few minutes putting together millions of different species of life on Earth is, quite frankly, an utter mystery to me.
     
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  15. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    My deepest apology Tom. I never meant to imply, nor did I say, that atheists are "stupid". I only meant, and said, that they do not "see". Those are two different things. And I'm hearing you say believers do not "see" your scientific theories and explanations. I trust that doesn't mean you are calling me "stupid" either :). It's just a difference in where we place our faith. Scientific theory of our origin (our creation), requires faith. It's a choice, not a lack of intelligence.

    I also believe/have faith that God created science ;). Science is a means to knowledge using our God given abilities and elements created by God. Theories are not knowledge though, which some place their faith in….there's that "faith" word again….it takes a lot of faith to believe in theories. I'd rather place my faith in God who has all the truthful answers.
     
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  16. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Very Well-Known Member
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    Some( I guess most) people feel a need to worship something. There have many gods invented over the history of human existence, usually invented to give reason to things that can't be explained. As human knowledge grows, more things can be explained so less gods are needed.
    It amazes me that so many people today still attribute everything they see to the god of their choice. So much bitterness, death and destruction because my god is better than your god.
    The only reason today to believe in any god is the natural fear of death. The promise that if you believe in this or that god you will live forever is the greatest scam ever invented. The sad part is that so many people are so intent on the next life they don't really live this one. This is all there is folks, make the best of it.
     
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  17. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    Believers don't fear death, quite the contrary. As you saw one of our newest members express in her thread, she is looking forward to and ready for that moment when she will be with God for eternity. So am I. But while we're here on earth we are most certainly making the best of this life on earth. God still has a plan for us here and our calling is to fulfill this life while it remains and enjoy our God given blessings.

    Our only "need to worship God" (not plural, only need one) comes from a love, joy, and gratitude deep within our souls. "Human knowledge grows" as God reveals things to us all…but does not replace God. It's from God. Any bitterness, death, and destruction is the result of man's sin nature and it's natural consequences.
     
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  18. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Very Well-Known Member
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    But Lara, you don't fear death because you have been led to believe you won't stay dead. That is the reason your religion has survived.
    When god was invented people had no idea about the universe so they came up with the idea a god made it. People used gods to explain things they had no other explanation for.
    They thought the earth and stars were constant and would be here forever. We now know that isn't true, one day the earth will no longer exist.
     
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  19. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    Sheldon...
    You are correct. I don't fear death because I believe I "won't stay dead" aka eternal life of peace, love, and joy. I don't see any problem with that :)
    You are correct. The promise of an eternal life of love and peace is "why my faith has survived"…no problem there
    You are correct. "a god" and "gods" were invented by some men BUT not in my religion…there is only one God as it states in the Bible and validated by Jesus Christ
    You are half correct. Earlier man knew less than men of today about the universe, correct. That doesn't change anything. The Bible says God created the earth and the stars. That's all. He never said they wouldn't come and go. As for the future of the earth…that's a whole other thread but briefly, the Bible says, after Armageddon, God will return to earth with his saints (believers) and rule. If God wants to defy science he can….the earth will remain as long as he so chooses.
     
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  20. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    What I don't understand is what I hear from different religions and most have a different belief in how you get to heaven. Raised Catholic my way was to obey all the rules of the church.

    Then I hear some people argue that the only way is if you are "saved". Muslims believe that it's okay to kill an infidel and they will go to heaven.

    Who's religion is right? Who is going to heaven? All of these people believe theirs is the true religion and one true God.

    Wether I believe in God or an afterlife doesn't change my view on dying. I'm not afraid to die...peacefully. I am afraid of a tortured or painful death but after that it's like going to sleep, you just don't wake up. If there is some sort of afterlife of the spirit or soul or energy than that would be great but if there isn't I won't know it. As for Heaven and Hell, that I don't believe at all.

    I won't say there is nothing because I don't know that.

    And my belief is if there is an all knowing God, then he knows I've been a good person and had love in my heart.
     
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  21. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    @Lara Moss, if God is control, then why do we even bother "saving" the planet?

    Also, as a catholic and obeying all the rules I would go to heaven. Then I married a divorced man and was excommunicated....now what? Also, eating meat on Friday was a sin while I was growing up, it's okay now. The rules keep changing.
     
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  22. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    That's a very good question, Chrissy. The only way you can know which faith is truth is to pray and study their beliefs and then see if there are any errors in their beliefs. That's a timely and daunting task as there are so many. I started with the Bible first and then studied the other religions as I had time. I found problems with the others but absolutely no errors and no contradictions in the Bible when kept in context. Many will take certain scriptures out of context and that won't yield the truth. Many don't understand what God is telling us in the Bible. I was confused at first and realized that I had to pray first, with a cleansed heart before reading, and ask God to reveal his truth to me as I read. It was incredible. That's why some scientists convert to Christianity. It's why the Bible has been on the best seller list since it's first printing (around 1500 years).
     
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  23. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Do you belong to any formal religion, Lara? I was raised Catholic and we were taught to believe that is the one true religion.

    I just want to say that I am not anti religion, I really don't care what anyone believes as long as they lead a good life.

    My 2 oldest grandsons are raised Catholic and have gone thru all the sacraments they are supposed to for their age. I'm not against it at all, when the 12 yr old asks me a question I try to answer in a way that won't discourage any beliefs he might have. I believe as they grow older they will choose whatever path they feel right for them.
     
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  24. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    In the beginning, when God created man, He said he created us to have dominion over all of God's creation and to care for it. God didn't create us as robots to completely control us. He wanted a relationship with man. So He gave us an ability to make choices, to choose to obey him or disobey. If we choose not to "save the planet" then we are in disobedience to God.

    I'm not an authority on the catholic religion and therefore can't comment. But I do know what it says in the Bible. It says obeying the rules is not what gets you to heaven. What gets you to heaven is believing that you're forgiven when you disobey God's commandments because you believe Jesus died to pay your punishment for the wrongdoing (called sin in the Bible). Someone who repeats the same offense over and over for his lifetime then is of course not forgiven because that indicates that the person is not truly a believer and only says he is. But God does say you can mess up many times and as long as you are truly repentant you will be forgiven…he knows our hearts.
     
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  25. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Like I said, he knows our hearts. I'm good! :)
     
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