I think it's wonderful that we have a few members that are actually in the midst of this and part of it. There are bound to be different opinions but @Patsy Faye and @Julie Stewart, that is what makes life so interesting to me. And being able to get both sides opinions from those going through this personally is educational and informative. So I hope y'all will continue discussing your opinions with us...and I hope @Holly Saunders and @Terry Page will come on and do so too. In a way America is going through the same thing...those Americans who are tired of our corrupt Government are trying to "break away" from this. We don't know what the Future holds either but we know what the past and present have held and many of us don't want it anymore either. So if those who don't want it anymore are successful in "breaking away" we will have many changes ahead of us too. And just like over there...there will be many who thought they wanted this, changing their minds because they are scared of the unknown. People often want the change without having to make the sacrifices and effort it takes to bring about that change. And that is true here and over there.
Babs - we took a chance going into the EU 40 years ago, long enough to see some real benefit instead of thanking them for giving us some of our money back and spending it for us Time now to take the chance and forge forward I hope Julie will respect my view, I expected a 'remain' vote and would have accepted that 'quietly' I will not be quiet though on my reasons for wanting to leave
I'm sure @Julie Stewart will "respectfully" continue to disagree with you @Patsy Faye You both are fine women, intelligent woman with minds of your own and the both of you have added spice to the SeniorsOnly.Club Forum. I can't make a decision either way in what is going on over there because it is not happening to me personally like it is to y'all. But my opinion is that both of you are right in standing up for what you believe needs to happen over there, and I pray good will end up for everyone in the end. Now that I have some "friends" over there I will be keeping all of this in my prayers.
I actually chose the wrong clip there - but, he was absolutely correct 'who are you ? !' The one I wanted is where he tells the lot of them of their short comings, especially the fact that we have not seen any 'accounts' and no accounts have been signed off !
I agree Patsy. I was just initially worried because our economy here in the Philippines rely significantly on the remittances from Filipino workers abroad. Many of our medical workers particularly in the UK, whose bread and butter comes from the money earned by our workers in foreign lands like UK. This morning, press release from our government assures stability on the effect of the bolt out from the EU of Britain. It also assures the families here of the workers in European nations particularly Britain that our economy is still in its steadfast position from the crisis and keeping optimistic that Brexit will have less impact if not none at all in our economy. Local and Asian stock market yesterday seems to be on a stand by watch position on the effect of the referendum though British pounds was in its historical lowest in decades yesterday. I guess businesses are still waging high optimism despite yesterday's economic ripple.
I agree with what you say, we have always had foreign workers here anyway, the problem is the 'vast' influx of people If the EU had done their job correctly, instead of being a pack of nodding dogs, we would not be in this situation and would have remained There are too many cooks in that organisation spoiling the broth, most are incompetent. At least with an 'elected' Government, we can terminate them The perks these officials get are obscene, whilst people are struggling, so many reasons why they have 'now' been judged by the public
Our prisons are overflowing to bursting point - our NHS, bursting at the seams - If I manage to get a doctors appointment, I feel I've won the lottery. Then there's the housing shortage, yet immigrants want to come here - whatever they have heard about this country is obviously from the people extorting money from them. Its a total mess but even so, I weighed it all up, watched as much as we could stand and the decision for 'out' seemed the only option, because you can talk to 'them' till you're blue in the face - they don't and won't listen
@Patsy Faye It seems you have put a lot of thought and reasoning into your decision to vote to leave. The reasons for leaving sound very valid to me. I pray that by choosing to leave Britian will be able to solve alot of those problems you spoke about. Sounds like there is a lot of corruption going on over there too. Here in America, we have some of those problems so I do understand where you are coming from. Many of us want to change these things too and that is why many including me, want Trump elected as President. He is not in "bed" with the other Politicians and he sees how corrupt our Government officials have become. Even if he is elected I don't know how much change he can really bring about but many of us have had it with the Establishment and we are standing up for reestablishment on our terms now. I pray both our Countries will be successful in bringing about much needed change Patsy.
@Babs Hunt - thank you for your reasonable assessment That is a 'huge' problem, many politicians in bed with these Eurocrats, thinking only of themselves and the bountiful perks
@Babs Hunt - "There are bound to be different opinions but @Patsy Faye and @Julie Stewart, that is what makes life so interesting to me. And being able to get both sides opinions from those going through this personally is educational and informative." - Exactly, debate is invigorating and progressive...... FURTHER : I'm sure @Patsy Faye would agree with me when I tell you that she and I do respect each other. In fact, we exchange regular PMs to check on each other most days. We have agreed not to touch on our different political views in our private messages and we are sticking to that .... @Chrissy Page - "Just by reading what I have so far and I'm only guessing but I'm thinking that the ones that voted to leave are the ones we would call the conservatives in the US and ones that would vote stay would be our liberals." - I think it's more the other way - but this issue has mixed up the moderates on both political sides producing some strange alliances. Cameron is a Conservative and fought to Remain as did many of his colleagues, whereas many traditional Labour voters from the working class voted to Leave. I'm quite strongly left-wing politically, UK 'liberals' tend to be the very mild end of the spectrum of the two major parties (ie: Labour and the Conservatives), the Liberals became the Liberal Democrat Party and are centrist. I have friends of many years' standing and the same political leanings as me over the years who voted to Leave - some are happy with the result some not. I find it disturbing that extreme right and fascist parties in Europe are delighted at the result - but that is a political position of course, others of a different persuasion will welcome such support, and not all those who voted to Stay are happy to be associated with, say, the extreme and radical National Socialists of Germany and Austria. Many Brits like me who live and work abroad - and not just in Europe - still have the right to vote in UK General Elections depending on our work and fiscal status. My particular situation gave me this right for 15 years after my first tax returns here in France - part of my taxes are paid in UK due to freelance work . My 15 years runs out in May 2017 - but I, like all those other working and tax-paying, socially and politically aware and informed Brits living abroad and contributing as our individual circumstances dictate to the UK economy were DENIED the right to vote in this referendum. WHY? Because it was assumed that the majority of us would vote to Leave - as it is I was in the minority as an ex-pat who would vote to Remain. Most people living abroad have property and/or family connections in the UK and the majority would have voted to Leave - the successful Leave campaign would have had a much healthier majority. My Remain vote would not have made a difference to the result - but I would have voted nonetheless, I've never missed a vote. There are many reasons why I hoped the UK would stay - but One importnant personal reason was that I hoped the UK would reassess the appalling changes in the pension rights which have, in the UK, negatively affected people born in the 1950s, including my brother, many friends and me via the UK-years of my own pension contributions. We suddenly, and with little or no discussion, found that we had another 11 or 12 years to work when we had anticipated retirement within 4 years. The EU-wide directive on pension age realignment was that it should take into account the human aspect - ie: give a decent period of time for readjustment of life plans for individuals. In France there has been a similar overhaul of the pension system - but it begins to affect people born after 1974. This is a huge difference, much more sensitive and less money-grabbing than in the UK. The campaign for a second referendum was started last November (2015) - it is not a knee jerk reaction to the result. Back then, 7 months before the referendum, it was launched with the statement : "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum." Legally Parliament must consider all petitions that get more than 100,000 signatures for a debate. Legally the Government must respond to all petitions that get more than 10,000 signatures. The petition has 3,218,193 signatures, over half of those in the last 2 days, and growing hourly - this on an official UK Government and Parliament petition site. Note that the petition specified "if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based on a turnout of less than 75%" - it was not a petition started by remain campaigners for their benefit, but by concerned individuals who realized way back then what a farce or disinformation and manipulation, by BOTH sides, the campaign was going to be. The leave vote was 52% the turnout was 72% - a second referendum cannot be ruled out. If a balanced honest campaign is run and the Leave vote wins I will accept that but I will not accept this mockery of democracy. My strong and vocal objections are not simply because the vote went against my convictions but that democracy suffered.
Hi Julie - thanks for explaining the petition, I couldn't see how it could have occurred after one day, I see some sense in the proposal and if it is taken up I shall just switch off and certainly not vote The big guns usually get their way and I am just plain tired of it. The whole thing has drained me, I am not against immigration at all, the 'vast' amount - I am As for the leave vote being working class - a big percentage yes, but then its the working class and disabled getting hit by austerity cuts and giving so much money away each week to enhance a luxury lifestyle, grates more than a bit
It seems there are fraudulent signatures on this petition 77,000 names already removed and investigation pending - people will stoop so low to get what they want
@Patsy Faye What you are saying here suggests to me the EU exists a lot like the UN: a sinkhole devouring much while delivering little back. Just my opinion. Frank
That is despicable - I can't even sign that petition which I've supported since it was set up last November because I don't have a UK IP address or a UK post code. At least the fraudulent signatures are obvious because of these requirement (UK IP and Post Code) - a lot were "pranksters" from China and thousands from the Vatican City and all after the referendum. At least there are still over 3 million valid signatures, many made before the referendum, so the statistical and legal requirements for the petition to be taken further remain in force. Remember that this is not a "Remain" petition - it is a petition for a clear and strong majority. It may well have been established by a "Leave" supporter. As the "Leave" campaign won I also wish they had a bigger majority to make the transition smoother. A small majority is like having a small lottery win - it gives an immediate sense pleasure, may clear a few things (bills etc), may buy a treat or two, but does have the impact or power of a significant lottery win.
@Julie Stewart - absolutely agree with you on the fact that a bigger majority would have been a better outcome But - even so, the suggestion for a 60 percent of the vote, should have been set in place before the referendum. Now we have turmoil because people are so unsettled on this, the politicians aren't helping much are they ................... I do wonder if all this fuss would have come about if the 'remain' had the 52 per cent, I strongly doubt that I think we are all 'shocked' by the outcome, because even the 'leave' expected a 'remain' and of course the 'remain' expected a 'remain' Sorry, made meself laugh there ........ I for one, never had questions answered during the debates, so right or wrong - had to go by the facts I did know Had to add to this post - to make meself clearer - hopefully