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Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Holly Saunders, Sep 26, 2017.
LOL.....they say he was a carpenter....is there anythng we know of that he actually built?
Holly, I don't know of anything on earth that He personally built, but I hear tell He's building lots of mansions in Heaven for all of us.
I wasn't being deliberately provocative...I was and Am genuinely really interested in where the title of Carpenter actually came from with regard Jesus...
Jewish culture at the time required fathers to teach their children a trade by age twelve and, since Joseph was a carpenter, it is surmised that Jesus was also trained as a carpenter. Interestingly, not knowing the original languages myself I cannot say with any certainty, but I was told that the word translated "carpenter" could also mean "builder" and, since the area in which they lived didn't have an abundance of wood, it's possible that he was what we would think of as a stonemason.
Well, according to Biblical History Jesus worked along side His earthly father Joseph and learned the carpenter trade.
It was only the last 3 years of His life basically that He "came out" as the Messiah. So He probably built quite a few things because they didn't have all the stores and stuff around to order things from like they do today.
I actually have to make a correction in my post here because even though Jesus did tell His disciples He was the Messiah and some others too recognized this fact during His last 3 years of life...most people did not recognize Him as such...even to the day they crucified Him for saying He was. Most of the time He told those He healed, etc. not to tell anyone who He was or what He had done for them...though many of them did tell anyway.
When Jesus spoke He always told the truth and if He was asked if He was the Messiah He would tell them He was but He never boasted or bragged about who He was.
So then would Jesus have been the first Freemason? My husband was a Mason but I don't remember what their views were regarding Jesus.
I do know that the G stood for God or Geometry...not sure now, Ive forgotten so much. Do know you couldn't be an atheist if you wanted to join.
In all honesty Chrissy, I don't believe there were any Freemasons back then...although they may have had a group like them calling themselves something else.
In my opinion Jesus was God's only begotten Son...and our one and only Messiah(or Savior/Redeemer). He had disciples but I don't believe they would be considered Freemasons either.
I expect he was handy. Joseph was said to be a carpender and I expect growing up Jesus learned a thing or two. I imagine in conversation with the guys and gals of his time he may have been good at using an analogy of the carpender's trade. And you'd have to say he was plenty good as a jawboner.
Since fathers often taught their sons the trade they were in I'm pretty sure Joseph did teach Jesus carpentry too and although I'm not going to go look up the Scripture verses there are some that refer to his being true too.
Jesus was in his 30's when he began his ministry to show the World who he was and what he came to earth for. He was certainly doing something to support himself and probably help his family out until that ministry began. I have no doubt it was the trade of carpentry that his earthly father Joseph taught him.
I read long ago that they may have actually been stone masons.
To me it would probably be a combination of wood and stone they worked with.
Mark 6:3.........Is this not the carpenter, the son of ......................................?
I agree Babs.
The Greek word is Teckton which means builder. Now, some say he worked with wood; building tools, doors, shelves, tables etc. = carpenter. Others say because of the region and the resources were rock, and most everything was built from rock, then he built millstones, winepresses, houses, etc. = stonemason. There is no real evidence to clarify exactly what Joseph was a builder of, but we know that he was a Teckton = Builder.
This page from the same site offers additional explanation for the stonemason theory:
Given that Israel's buildings were constructed of stones and rocks, Jesus likely worked as a stonemason rather than a carpenter. He probably spent hours helping his father shape and cut stones.
As stated in the link, stone masonry applied to Tekton is a more recent rendering but still understood as a worker of wood in the KJV. Do note: Tekton only occurs twice in the entirety of the KJV.
The Strongs reference G5045 specifies that it is a worker of wood.
On another note, when we find the Temple at Jerusalem being built, the stone masons cut and placed the stones whilst the carpenters worked with the cedars that were shipped in from Lebanon. Carpenters (or craftsmen of wood) also built wooden wheels, carts, chairs etc even in an environment that consisted mostly of stone.
Either way, I have seen a lot of heavy duty arguing in other forums and articles I have read and it makes little sense as to why there should be anything other than a bit of fascination. As for me, I rather like the idea that carpenter in the Hebrew translation can also mean a wise and well studied man which as we well know, Jesus was indeed very wise.
Stone mason or carpenter, he didn't build His cross, He was crucified on one which is the apex of what His job really was.
I'm been on to many religion Forums that argue things that really just aren't important. The Bible refers to Jesus as a Carpenter and also as the son of a Carpenter. And maybe He did do both some wood and stone carpentry. This is not something to me that is really important. He probably did a little of everything that was necessary for living in those days just like we all do.
What is important is that Jesus...God's one and only begotten Son was sent down to earth from God to redeem us from our sins so that we could become beloved sons and daughters of our heavenly Father and have eternal life with Him.
Jesus died on the Cross and shed His blood to offer us that redemption and eternal life and all we have to do is believe and receive the free gift God offers us all.
Nope, not important at all. Just thought it was an interesting tidbit.
I have done a bit of study on this and this is what I have concluded. In both Aramaic and in Greek, the word for builder and carpenter are the same. In excavations a number of years ago, a large house was discovered over and around which several churches had been built. Since it was puzzling as to why a number of churches would have been built around a large private dwelling, it was concluded that the house was probably that of Mary (built earlier by her husband who had died and in which Mary lived as a widow after the death of her husband). A conclusion from that was that Joseph was more of a "building contractor" than a simple carpenter, and was somewhat wealthy. That would mesh well with some of the non-canonical documents of the time, in which Jesus apprenticed with his father until somewhere in his teens, when a younger brother, perhaps James or Judas, was old enough to care for the family as Joseph apparently died when Jesus was around 20 (some sources say 15-18). At that time, some "lost" documents state that Jesus interned as a merchant with his uncle (Joseph of Arimathea, supposedly Mary's brother who was reputed to be a Tin trader among other things). This story goes on at length, and I don't want to fill up the thread with this post. I don't participate in the "Religion Forums" so I don't know what is covered in those. This story explains, however, why Joseph didn't want to embarrass Mary by quietly putting her aside as this was the joining of two significant families, not a tradesman and a poor maiden, as well the apparent education that Jesus had in Hebrew, Greek (he quoted verbatim from the Septuagint), and Latin, as well as Aramaic, the common language of the time. He is quoted as reading from Isaiah when it was on a scroll before chapters and verses were invented so he had to know exactly where he was going in the scroll.
I find this discussion interesting, particularly Don's and I know or think I know some members on this forum are skillful in the use of the bible and have strongs beliefs in it's teachings and authenticity. I will admit to reading the bible through once and almost a second time excepting the last two profits in the old testament. At the time of these happenings I was a teenager. I say this only to point out at the times of these readings, I was not yet in a pocession of a mature mind and was not always understanding what I read. I think it is fair to say I was somewhat of a part-time serious student of the bible, based on various studies of churches I attended up until about thirty-five years of age. That being said, I am still an uneducated individual and do not know a great deal about anything. However I was always more interested in what early historians of that time when Jesus and his family and his deciples (sp.) walked the earth. Josephus, for example, or did any other historian's comments regarding Jesus survive from that time? It is one thing to have a book of faith document something and a whole other situation if we have any other secular notations from that time period. I have not looked into that aspect. I may not be caple of doing so. But I am curious if any of you have knowledge of this sort. I suppose when I composed these qestions in my mind, I was thinking of @Bobby Cole, for no particular reason than I have followed some of his comments. It's fair to say I think @Ken Anderson or @Babs Hunt or @Shirley Martin or any number of you on this forum have knowledge to share. However faith in itself is not knowledge. It could be we must ponder and decide for our selves what is true and what is authentic.
For a purely secular view of the Historicity of Jesus Christ, Wikipedia has a fairly in-depth article. On the theory that Jesus was a myth, Wikipedia states that this theory has very little support among current scholars. Even early Jewish writers, although they did not agree that Jesus was Messiah, have acknowledged his existence and that Christianity came about on the basis of his teachings, and that of his disciples.
Thanks for that. I have skimmed the Historicity of Jesus Christ down to the references. Will go back to it later to check out any other leads. I will say, Ken, you must have some knowledge stored up somewhere as you are pretty fast on the trigger with your comeback.
Fascinating stuff... I'm loving this thread and all your Hypothesis , or ''facts'' as they may be laid out.... but not knowledgeable enough in any way to join in.... but thank you all, it's making fascinating reading for me, and as you say @Bill Boggs , there are others as well, none less than @Ken Anderson himself and @Babs Hunt, not forgetting @Yvonne Smith and @Bobby Cole as well those who've already contributed.. who make this very interesting for people like me..
Thanks, Bill. I really just referred you to someone who knew more about it than I did. I did know that Wikipedia has a pretty good article on it because I had looked at it once before for some reason.
It might be of interest to some, that Jesus is mentioned about 25 times in the Quran (or Koran) and is referenced as being the son of Mary and Joseph the carpenter. As the successor of John the Baptist and predecessor of Muhammed He is acknowledged as a great prophet who's job it was to enlighten the children of Israel in the true ways of Allah and prepare for the coming of Muhammed.
It is also written that He was taken up (ascended) and will later return.
Obviously, much that is written in the Quran about Jesus aligns well with our own Christian Bible.
He never finished any project...Joseph had to finish it because Jesus was always giving a Sermon somewhere.....