Thoughts On Trinity

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Sheldon Scott, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
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    This just doesn't make sense to me for a number of reasons.

    Do you believe in the Trinity? If so, why?
     
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    No, I can believe in a supreme being and that's as far as I can go.
     
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  3. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    It a good question and an often asked question especially by those who are new to the Christian belief system.
    Just so I do not get too long winded and bore the heck out of everyone, here is a scenario that might whet the appetite a bit.
    Think first of yourself and those people around you. We are all one person but in truth we have three elements which make up that one person namely the Brain, body and spirit (mind). Each has it's own job to do but all three still make up a single entity.......the triune entity called man.

    Now, let's get the hard part out of the way. In the Judeo / Christian belief system we believe that we are made in the image of God. All of our basic attributes are in that image sans our physical bodies.
    We, are a small part of Him and share similar attributes as Him hence His and our mutual triune nature.

    The only thing, I believe, that upsets the apple cart when understanding the triune nature of God is the birth, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus (Jeshua) the Christ and where the God / Man fits in.
    Jesus said it better than I ever could. "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father for I and the Father are one.". In essence, every man alive on earth can say exactly the same thing with only the mortality part being the issue. Indeed, if you have seen me you have seen my dad for we both share the same genetic makeup and even more so now since more about the quantum makeup of our humanity is being discovered.
    And to take it one step further, indeed, if you have seen me then you will have seen part of God for part of me is of Him also.

    Hope this helps a bit. It's pretty basic but if it helps get a handle on things then maybe we can continue further in greater length and make it even more palatable.
     
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  4. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
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    Sorry Bobby but it still doesn't make sense. o_O
     
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  5. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    That's alright @Sheldon Scott, again it gets confusing because we do have a tendency to over complicate things.
    Let's try this, but mind you, I will probably get a little flack over it.

    You're a guy, right? When you admire a lady, are you short sighted and just observe the body or do you study for a bit and like the whole package? Everything about her. She has a brain, she has a great spirit and the package ain't bad either!
    But, ..........she's only a single person but we just made her into three people!
    No, she's one person.
    No, I like all three parts of her so there's three!
    But, she's still only one person!
    But, when describing her if one part is less than totally desirable we say 2 out of 3 ain't bad so I definitely love those 2 parts but just like the one part so she's three......hmppphhh!

    Of course there's only one person and it would be asinine to say anything different but in essence that is what we have done with our singular creator.
    We do not Worship three gods but only one God with three definite attributes. He thinks, He has a fantastic Spirit and the package ain't bad either!

    That's way over simplified and again, I'll catch some flack over it for a seeming lack of reverence but then again I have heard of people getting in trouble for calling Him, "Daddy." (In deference to that I would say that if He is all a person has ever known as a father then maybe Daddy is much more reverent than some would take it, and above all, it's about the heart)
     
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  6. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
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    You're not very convincing Bobby. So you're say if that woman has a daughter, she and her daughter are the same person. I think the whole idea of a trinity is absurd. Even Christian denominations don't agree. Some insist on it while other Christian denominations don't believe it.
     
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  7. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Uh........man created denominations. But, all things said I'm sorry I couldn't help you out Sheldon. If it's the trinity that is holding up your thoughts of a creator just this once cancel out the trinity (temporarily) and just go for the creator. After that things seem to clear up a bit. You already do not worry about what people think in regard to Theism as opposed to Atheism so why worry about why people worship this way or that way?
    Personally, I do not push my beliefs on anyone because although I truly do love everyone on this earth (but do not like a whole bunch) I am not responsible for anyone else's choices. I simply try to point the way to God and after that I keep things as simple as I can.
    I can't tell you how many times someone else's explanations and examples were better than mine for a particular person of different understanding. We all comprehend things on different levels and sometimes it takes a different person to properly approach your level of understanding and or acceptance.
    That's why I generally do not get into Theological fights.

    Just because we do not understand the German mechanic and the way he fixes cars doesn't mean that he does not exist and we won't let him fix the BMW.

    Note: On a macro physical level, no, a daughter and mother are not the same person. On a quantum level, they are more the same person than one can even imagine but, that is still thinking in human terms. I only gave a loose example which is why I said I could get whacked for using it because it doesn't fully explain the spiritual world.
    Like we are told in our guide book: We do not even understand our world and yet we worry about understanding the (spiritual world) kingdom of God.
     
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  8. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
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    I wasn't looking for help, I was merely wondering why some people believe what they do:confused:. Try my next question.:eek:
     
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  9. Von Jones

    Von Jones Veteran Member
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    @Bobby Cole I understood everything you said in every way you said it.;)
     
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  10. Ina I. Wonder

    Ina I. Wonder Very Well-Known Member
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    @Bobby Cole , this is a point that confuses me as well. But I did get a better feel for what you're trying to impart in your second example.

    Some times just the idea of religion can feel like an assault, depending on your introduction to it, and this can produce a barrier that is very hard to get past. Your ability to take your beliefs and restate them in an analogy that had no ties to any religion makes it easier to except your point. This ability allows me the chance of hearing what your trying to help me understand.
     
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  11. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Yup, I realize that you aren't looking for spiritual help Sheldon. You are pretty much set in your ways and I'm pretty sure that nothing I can refer to or write will change that.
    But, I too have a question for you. Have you ever had to interview someone over a job application and if yes, what are the criterias you use to establish a good hire?
     
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  12. Terry Page

    Terry Page Veteran Member
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    I accept the trinity explanation, we are all composed of mind body and spirit I believe, and if you buy into the whole religious concept, then it would make sense I feel?
     
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  13. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Veteran Member
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    No I haven't been in a position to interview people for a job. However my criteria would be job history and performance, honesty, ability, integrity, and references. Of course you can't learn all these things about a person from an interview but you can get a feel about the person. None of the requirements mentioned have anything to do with a religion.

    I'm pretty sure I won't be changing your ideas either Bobby.
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    The concept of the Trinity is not one that we are capable of understanding, I think. In fact I believe that this is why the doctrine of the Trinity is not very well documented in the Bible. The one passage that most clearly spells out the Trinity of God - the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is not found in the earlier manuscripts, and may have been added later by someone wanting to firm up a belief in the Trinity, as that has been a hot button issue during the history of the Christian church, of the kind where someone might be burned at the stake for giving the wrong answer.

    I have an acquaintance in the Amish community who was shunned for several months simply because he questioned the doctrine of the Trinity. He had read a book that suggested that there was no such thing and asked questions of some of the church leaders. I'll explain shunning in another thread, if there's any interest. I am not Amish but I am very familiar with their beliefs.

    However, while no word in the Bible translates into Trinity, there are enough passages in the Scripture that make that implication that I do believe in the Trinity, but I do not believe that an understanding of the Trinity is essential to salvation. The Christian writer, A.W. Tozer, referred to the Trinity as "an incomprehensible mystery" and said that attempts to understand it must remain "forever futile."

    For example, I wouldn't suggest that quantum physics is a lot of nonsense just because I don't understand it. There are those who have a much better understanding of it than I do, but I expect there are still things to be learned.

    Although we are told that we are made in the image of God, an image is not the actual thing, and I believe that the totality of God is so vastly different from us that there are no words that would allow us to figure Him out. I do believe that God does exist as three separate beings, which are combined in a manner in which we are incapable of understanding. As human beings, we are inclined to want to understand things, and often unwilling to accept ideas that don't make any sense to us, but I do believe that God is so vastly complex that we are incapable of getting anything other than a simplified idea as to what He is.

    These explanations are published in Bible commentaries and Bible dictionaries, and into the creeds of various Christian denominations, and people feel as if they understand it, thus satisfying the human urge for things to make sense. But I don't think we can come even close to truly understanding the nature of God.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 17, 2016
  15. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    Quite right my friend, neither of us will be changing but the questions are good. Whether or not you personally grasp or adhere to an idea, it does give an opportunity for others to gain a greater understanding because of your questions and for that I give you thanks.

    About the interview thing. You admit that each person you might interview has a number of attributes making up that potential hiree. You wouldn't hire on just looks, or a person's character or whatever, but you would hire based on the whole makeup of the person. But, you admit that each person is made up of several elements do you not? If not, then we just hire 'em when they flock through the door because after all, without those elements that make up a person then all that is left is a mass of carbon based material.

    Similar to @Terry Pages analysis, if we believe in a god, any god, then we have to believe he or she is divided into more than one element in order to make up the whole.
     
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