The First Religion Of Record?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Kalvin Mitnic, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    To my way of thinking it is impossible to determine precisely when faith in a transcendental 'thing' of faith became part of man's way of life.
    What might give a clue is the manner the dead where treated/buried or disposed of by early tribes or collective.
    What is certain is that some have always been disposed and inclined to some thing superior to themselves. Giving the results of having such faith has often proved traumatic, and I don't see that as necessarily being a positive thing.
    Gods long past were considered just as powerful and omnipotent in their time as those in religions today.
    God help us one and all.



    http://www.agnosticwitch.com/articles/oldest-religion.html
     
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  2. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    I wish religion wasn't followed 'so' religiously :rolleyes: :p
     
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  3. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    "Followed" in religious order can be a very crooked path indeed and in deed.
     
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    There were indications of religion among Peking Man, and even more so among the Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon.
     
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  5. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Only natural I think @Ken Anderson
    Imagine looking up at the skies back then, so clear and wondrous
    Still is to me, but I haven't the views they had
     
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  6. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    I think we looked closer to home maybe.
    In my recollection we came across this large rock that resembled a credit card 'course we didn't know that at the time but it had a similar hold on us. So the three of us, we were known then as the three wise men, sat down to come up with a proper name for a deity name for that object, one we we could honor.
    Fetus came up with Visa, let this be our vista our vision, call our master Visa. Nah said Jehoshaphat, like you said, 'Master' that would be a good name.
    I don't like dealing with a Master said Kalvi, How's about "Express" Ya know like don't leave home without faith in Express!!!:rolleyes:
    In our wisdom we said lets take all three names and so it came to pass, we worshiped those gods like ya know, faithfully.
    Don't leave home without it came to be our credo.
    Jo spake then unto Express. "Verily might we offer up unto you a monthly prize and offering? "
    Festus said, "what's a month? We pondered that and decided it would be the time between first cross words and the next. So we called that time the month. Some thought a 'period' would be a good synonym, but what's in a name. So once a month we honored Visa,Master and Express with offerings we could afford but they never seemed enough so some dissidents blasphemed and turned their faces away to the worship of the god Cash, but for many that was seen as imprudent or indiscreet so Cash was paid homage mostly 'under the table'.

    That's how I heard it all started anyhow. The rock is still there but mostly kept in touch in our 'the net' so as to continue drawing interest from those that worship at it's plastic visage. Uh? What's plastic " asked Jo. Kalvi said , " a tale for another day's religious instruction. Go now with credit to our gods."
     
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  7. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Lol - how the mind works, especially yours - which keeps me entertained
    Keep 'em coming Kal :p

    @Kalvin Mitnic
     
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  8. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Oh sorry, 'Warning, misconception warning Will Robinson. My mind doesn't work it went on walkabout years ago.
     
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  9. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Makes no difference to me if Will's mind doesn't work :p
     
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  10. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Agreed Will stands on his work,but mine is on walkabout.


    Now I doubt any might take the time, I do offer some thoughts on religion, and that does not mean only Christian religions.
    As one not out to disparage ANY religion so long as its good out does any bad I often read such and others and have for at least 50 years. Contemporary religions have changed with reformations and though denied, Islam too has had alternatives and revision.
    Religion can be good for some but restrictive for others especially if there is an official religion (Saudi)or
    Christian. I.E. https://www.google.ca/search?q=Coun...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=9_RgWaHRPKjQjwSavqKQBw

    "Roman Catholicism as their state or official religion:

    • Argentina.
    • Bolivia.
    • Costa Rica.
    • El Salvador.
    • Liechtenstein.
    • Malta.
    • Monaco.
    • Some cantons of Switzerland (state religion): Appenzell Innerrhoden (declared "religion of the people of Appenzell Innerrhoden") Aargau. Basel-Country. Bern. Glarus.
    Or a de facto as Western countries was/is yet pretend not to be yet have religion based laws yet on the books.
    I think religion(s) should be discussed for both their social impact and deeds done in their name. Blue laws once restricted everyone's activities and STILL DO> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laws_in_the_United_States
    E.g. Excerpt
    "Arkansas
    Arkansas has 75 counties, 39 of which are "dry", meaning the sale of any alcoholic beverage is prohibited entirely. (Some exceptions are made for private facilities). Private facilities must have licenses, which, in this state, can be rigorous. Sale of alcoholic beverages on Christmas Day is entirely prohibited, even in private facilities. Alcohol and liquor sales are entirely prohibited on Sunday and Christmas Day. (Some exceptions for private facilities are made for Sundays).[4]"

    Religion is apparently a fashion industry. Sometimes tenets seem cyclical or repetitive like virgin births and resurrection.
    Some on forums think that any under the rubric of 'RELIGION" means Christianity which in religion's history is a Johnny come lately, as is Islam and though predating both by centuries so is Judaism in the scheme of things.
    Most (if not all) religions took from previous religions, and why not? It's easier to convince followers to convert if some aspects of a new revelation has some familiar points to grasp at.


    "Resurrections are part and parcel of religions predating to Christianity.
    http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/
    Virgin births predate Christianity. https://carm.org/religion-mithra-prove-christianity-false
    Some critics of Christianity teach that the Christian religion was not based on divine revelation but that it borrowed from pagan sources, Mithra being one of them. They assert that the figure of Mithra has many commonalities with Jesus, too common to be a coincidence.

    Mithraism was one of the major religions of the Roman Empire which was derived from the ancient Persian god of light and wisdom. The cult of Mithraism was quite prominent in ancient Rome, especially among the military. Mithra was the god of war, battle, justice, faith, and contract.According to Mithraism, Mithra was called the son of God, was born of a virgin, had disciples, was crucified, rose from the dead on the third day, atoned for the sins of mankind, and returned to heaven. Therefore, the critics maintain that Christianity borrowed its concepts from the Mithra cult. But is this the case? Can it be demonstrated that Christianity borrowed from the cult of Mithra as it developed its theology?"
     
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  11. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    I wonder what the world would have been like 'without' religion and just faith,
    faith in something beyond us as I have
    I think we would have seen a better world, people caring for each other simply because they are compassionate
     
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  12. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Very Well-Known Member
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    Is there really a God in heaven on high or in some far off section of the universe that watches over us and communicates with us as individuals or some few chosen people on earth. Did Jesus really live and then die for our sins? Really now, sins. That's a stretch. (that in itself seems far out to me. Sounds like the Almighty wants us to pay for the sins of Adam and eve and all our fathers. Does he talk to preachers or individuals or maybe has conversations with the pope? Well of course not. It does seem rather silly in the light of TV evangelical preachers living a lifestyle you and I will never attain. Their messages when you look at it all is part sermon and part grubbing for money. You must have faith. Faith to believe the Bible, faith to believe all this other nonsense spoken by modern profits who say God has spoken to them and naturally wants your prayer requests and please send me a hundred dollars (to help keep up and maintain his lavish lifestyle). Faith or otherwise we have nothing.

    It all seem made up to me. I have come to believe if there is a God he is the God of nature, a God who has ordained survival of the fittest in nature, one species killing another. A loving God who ordains the same rules for the human race as for nature. Now that could arguably be labeled "sin". I don't know if there exist in all the universe an overseer who mandates rules for the universe, the planets, the orbits, the black holes, and gravity. And who knows what all a universal overseer would do. But certainly not Mickey mouse around with us humans. In order to comprehend and believe such a concocted myths, much faith is required. I can't swallow all that, the Bible. It seems man-made, made up by ancient scribes and voted on which stories and myths to include in the early Bible. I'm wondering if we haven't heard the Bible pitched to us so often and so long by generations of family and ministers of the gospel that we have been brain-washed. It is easier for me to say I'm an Agnostic and to believe when I die it's all over. The end. Or as easy to believe in re-incarnation or some other far out philosophy. But then, He hasn't said anything in over two thousand years. That should be a clue. Therefore it can be said that whatever we believe under the umbrella of Religion, it's all myth. People quote the Bible in defense, but if one considers the good book to be nothing more than stories and fables, collected and put together by a commission of the early church, it has little validity. These random books chosen or rejected by a vote of this group of men, whose authors mostly unknown and who appears to have borrowed heavily from other religions, so that this commission and this church leadership could say, "This I believe."

    It's a stretch to believe such random writings and selections could be considered 'God's Word'. But then that's where faith comes in. If you have faith in something, you can believe and hope anything is the true way. It's all above my pay-grade. I don't have that much faith in anything seen or unseen. I suppose you could call me an agnostic, an agnostic who occasionally prays and hopes for the best.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
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  13. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: 'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.' Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God-that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let the one who boasts boast in the LORD." - 1 Corinthians 1:1-31

    I can appreciate that. I sometimes does to me, too, and that concerns me. In the end, that will no doubt be the majority opinion. Whether it is the right one or not is another matter.

    "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." -- Matthew 7:13-14
     
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  14. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    @Ken Anderson , I am a modern, fairly well educated woman. I have trouble deciphering what is meant by the scripture you quoted.The uneducated tribal people who would have supposedly have read that 2017 years ago would have been even less likely to understand it. Why do you think Paul didn't use simple, easy to understand words to spread the word?
     
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  15. Ina I. Wonder

    Ina I. Wonder Very Well-Known Member
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    My grandmother once told me that the Creator was and would always be there for me. Not the other way around. That the Creator had no need of me or my praise, but at the same time you should always say thank you.

    It took me a long time to understand her meaning. :rolleyes:
     
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  16. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    @Bill Boggs - yes - a lot of money is made out of religion and some, are very 'bad' people
    @Ina I. Wonder - wise words and I understand fully
     
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  17. Lara Moss

    Lara Moss Very Well-Known Member
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    The first person to look up and all around and ask "Why am I here?", "Who created this wondrous planet?", "Who created me?", and "What is my purpose?"...and then not see the answer but by faith believed...was the first religion
     
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  18. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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  19. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Very Well-Known Member
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    Whoever the author who wrote about Matthew may have been a brilliant scribe or writer who might well have been on the best seller list if he were writing today.
     
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  20. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    all too often hypocrites are the most devote on the surface, and the first to condemn another
     
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  21. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Don't understand that one - at all
     
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  22. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    In religious circles indeed, the bible belt and on televangelist shows. Where reasonable and rational people of thought congregate such god-speak is simplistic anachronistic poetry. Scans well and well scripted but sadly translates as gobbledygook to moi.
    Still it may do good and cause no harm as does the occasional Quran verse selectively interpreted by radicals to their agenda.I know of no similar harmful interpretation of the Christian bible verses in contemporary times.
     
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  23. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    "all too often hypocrites are the most devote on the surface, and the first to condemn another"
    The history of 'hell fire, brimstone and damnation preaching by some Christian preachers of note, both from the pulpit on radio or T.V. has shown their true face when their real lives,greed, fraudulent expenditures and sexual misbehavior's are exposed.Surely you know of some without a list from me.
     
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  24. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    ;)Then very quickly asked...:eek: but why did 'it' create that *&^(%&$#*! sabre tooth thing what's chased me up this tree?":(
     
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  25. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Yes I do ! And, thanks Kal - the heat is getting to me, no clear head :p
     
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