Should Abortion Be Banned As A Discussion Topic?

Discussion in 'Help Requests' started by Ken Anderson, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    This is where we get into the crux of the problem, which are the labels. It is perfectly okay to disagree with someone's view on something but when you assign the label of immoral to someone who has a pro-choice position or one of crazy to someone who believes in a conspiracy theory, that's where the hurtfulness starts. You might think that it's the same thing, but it doesn't hurt as much if I say that I think a particular conspiracy theory is crazy than it does when I call someone crazy for believing in it. The same is true of abortion, and it feels different because they are not the same thing. While I do believe that some people who push pro-choice positions are themselves immoral, such as the abortion doctors who profit from it or those who run the organizations that push it, I do not believe that someone is themselves immoral because they have taken a pro-choice position. Nor do I believe that people necessarily remain in one position. Several people who were once pro-choice have become pro-life after becoming aware of the advances in science that prove that many of the babies who are being aborted could indeed survive outside of the womb if allowed to, while there are those who once considered themselves to be pro-life who have become pro-choice when they themselves became pregnant, when their young daughter became pregnant, or when they have experienced other situations in which they could see no other reasonable choice. In this, I am not making a value judgement but simply stating that positions are often fluid, although I don't know that anyone's position has ever been changed through an argument, and particularly a forum argument.
     
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  2. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Supreme Member
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    Absolutely right - but it can be discussed
    Sometimes when we are passionate about a subject we can use a term that covers everybody, I've done this myself
    I don't literally mean everybody.
    I felt the passion of that post and saw no reason to condemn but to point out that abortion isn't immoral unless used as a means
    of birth control 'that' is immoral
     
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  3. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    That is still just your opinion. Everybody has different views on morality.

    Because it all boils down to when it's a life. If it's not a baby, then it's not immoral. You're using what you think is right and making a call based on that.

    Without the mother, that 12 week old fetus has no life. It can't live on its own. That's the basis of the whole abortion argument.
     
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  4. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Supreme Member
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    Yes - I should have added in my opinion, but I thought that was obvious
     
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  5. Denise Evans

    Denise Evans Supreme Member
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    Some very, good points @Ken Anderson
     
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  6. Denise Evans

    Denise Evans Supreme Member
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    I forget to add that as well @Patsy Faye. But I too think it's obvious with most posts I see on these types of issues;)
     
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  7. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I'm not the judge of who or what is immoral, it's different for anyone. I just was shocked to hear someone calling me immoral when I had my two children and didn't sleep around at all and was a virgin when I married. Didn't divorce either...took my marriage vows seriously.

    People should practice what they preach. I find it disturbing that the same people who post bible quotes will be the same ones that spew hate about others in private. This is what this is all about.

    Of course this is all my opinion.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  8. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Yeah, but then we get to what I referred to earlier, which is that the nature of American laws are such that they are always carried to an unreasonable extreme, which is that some babies who are able to survive outside of the womb are being aborted, and it is legal to abort babies up until the moment of delivery. It hasn't yet, but it can go even further than that, and there have been bills proposed in congress that would allow for post-birth abortion, using the argument that a newborn baby cannot survive on its own, given that the newborn infant is in need of the mother to feed him, keep him warm, etc. No, these bills were not even seriously considered but that's often how things begin.
     
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  9. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I don't agree with aborting babies that can survive on their own. Those laws are an extreme and will never happen. A 3 yr old can barely survive without being taken care of...but that's a whole different issue. We are not talking about taking care of yourself...talking about dying instantly outside that womb at 12 weeks...in a few minutes anyway.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
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  10. Denise Evans

    Denise Evans Supreme Member
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    Yes, partial-birth abortion was banned in the US in 2003. I don't want to think of how many died prior to that, but at least this is progress. I am hoping this is a legitimate source of information on that. May be upsetting to some, there are some graphics:

    http://www.mccl.org/partial-birth-abortion.html
     
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  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Consider this. These arguments are the basis on which future laws permitting infanticide may draw from.

    Source: Huffington Post
    Slate weighs in on the same article.

    My point in this is to further illustrate the significance of recognizing that people draw lines in different places, and that this may be in flux.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    As you see, we can discuss the issue as long as we avoid the labels. When we look at the several places in which different people might draw their lines, there will be a point where most of us will consider anything on the other side of this line to be evil. The inability to recognize this is what brought about the atrocities that occurred during the Nazi regime and in other places and times throughout the world. As long as we don't assign the word "evil" as a label to anyone else involved in the discussion, the topic can be discussed. First of all, as a label used to describe a person, it isn't accurate. Secondly, we won't all agree about the point at which something becomes evil and lastly, it isn't helpful to label people because then the discussion ends and war begins.
     
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  13. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    Most of the people I know are prochoice and not one would draw the line that far out..most agree ASAP.
     
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  14. Denise Evans

    Denise Evans Supreme Member
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    Yes @Ken Anderson , people make their own choices. IMO, this is going to get worse as the years go by. I am not surprised that there are folks that think taking an innocent life (imo) is ok. I am so glad there is the other "side" that fight for the rights of the babies, who may not be out of the womb yet, but are still alive, as well as those that are already out of the womb. I will say again that I do believe there are times for abortion such as the fetus had died. That's the main one I think of.

    I meant to "quote" your post ken and thought I had, this is about your post, the long one up above.
     
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  15. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Neither one of those are okay and what's more, they are unhelpful and unkind.
     
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