Should Abortion Be Banned As A Discussion Topic?

Discussion in 'Help Requests' started by Ken Anderson, Nov 6, 2016.

  1. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I guess I just don't understand what is allowed to be said about other members on an open forum.

    So, if it's okay for someone to think and call people immoral who are prochoice, then it's okay to call people that believe the earth is flat nutjobs?

    That's a common view by probably the majority of people. You can't just pick and choose, if immoral is okay, so is crazy in my opinion and I've tried to that calling people that even though I feel very strongly about Conspiracy theories. I'm not alone because there are hundreds of websites devoted to debunking them.

    Maybe @Ken Anderson will clear up what is slander and what isn't. I'm only talking public forum.
     
    #27
  3. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    You obviously think your response was justified and cannot see that an alternative way would have been better
    My response would have been - no, abortion is not immoral for those people that are desperate, or, may have been
    raped
    It is immoral to have sex with several partners and consider an abortion to be justified in that case
    There are plenty of safe options out there without considering abortion to be the first option when things go wrong
     
    #28
  4. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    #29
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  5. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Yes Denise, I see it now. I was wrong, you would never hurt anybody's feelings or call them names....so sorry.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    This is where we get into the crux of the problem, which are the labels. It is perfectly okay to disagree with someone's view on something but when you assign the label of immoral to someone who has a pro-choice position or one of crazy to someone who believes in a conspiracy theory, that's where the hurtfulness starts. You might think that it's the same thing, but it doesn't hurt as much if I say that I think a particular conspiracy theory is crazy than it does when I call someone crazy for believing in it. The same is true of abortion, and it feels different because they are not the same thing. While I do believe that some people who push pro-choice positions are themselves immoral, such as the abortion doctors who profit from it or those who run the organizations that push it, I do not believe that someone is themselves immoral because they have taken a pro-choice position. Nor do I believe that people necessarily remain in one position. Several people who were once pro-choice have become pro-life after becoming aware of the advances in science that prove that many of the babies who are being aborted could indeed survive outside of the womb if allowed to, while there are those who once considered themselves to be pro-life who have become pro-choice when they themselves became pregnant, when their young daughter became pregnant, or when they have experienced other situations in which they could see no other reasonable choice. In this, I am not making a value judgement but simply stating that positions are often fluid, although I don't know that anyone's position has ever been changed through an argument, and particularly a forum argument.
     
    #31
  7. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Absolutely right - but it can be discussed
    Sometimes when we are passionate about a subject we can use a term that covers everybody, I've done this myself
    I don't literally mean everybody.
    I felt the passion of that post and saw no reason to condemn but to point out that abortion isn't immoral unless used as a means
    of birth control 'that' is immoral
     
    #32
  8. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    That is still just your opinion. Everybody has different views on morality.

    Because it all boils down to when it's a life. If it's not a baby, then it's not immoral. You're using what you think is right and making a call based on that.

    Without the mother, that 12 week old fetus has no life. It can't live on its own. That's the basis of the whole abortion argument.
     
    #33
  9. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Yes - I should have added in my opinion, but I thought that was obvious
     
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  10. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    Some very, good points @Ken Anderson
     
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  11. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    I forget to add that as well @Patsy Faye. But I too think it's obvious with most posts I see on these types of issues;)
     
    #36
  12. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I'm not the judge of who or what is immoral, it's different for anyone. I just was shocked to hear someone calling me immoral when I had my two children and didn't sleep around at all and was a virgin when I married. Didn't divorce either...took my marriage vows seriously.

    People should practice what they preach. I find it disturbing that the same people who post bible quotes will be the same ones that spew hate about others in private. This is what this is all about.

    Of course this is all my opinion.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  13. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Yeah, but then we get to what I referred to earlier, which is that the nature of American laws are such that they are always carried to an unreasonable extreme, which is that some babies who are able to survive outside of the womb are being aborted, and it is legal to abort babies up until the moment of delivery. It hasn't yet, but it can go even further than that, and there have been bills proposed in congress that would allow for post-birth abortion, using the argument that a newborn baby cannot survive on its own, given that the newborn infant is in need of the mother to feed him, keep him warm, etc. No, these bills were not even seriously considered but that's often how things begin.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
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  14. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I don't agree with aborting babies that can survive on their own. Those laws are an extreme and will never happen. A 3 yr old can barely survive without being taken care of...but that's a whole different issue. We are not talking about taking care of yourself...talking about dying instantly outside that womb at 12 weeks...in a few minutes anyway.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
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  15. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    Yes, partial-birth abortion was banned in the US in 2003. I don't want to think of how many died prior to that, but at least this is progress. I am hoping this is a legitimate source of information on that. May be upsetting to some, there are some graphics:

    http://www.mccl.org/partial-birth-abortion.html
     
    #40
  16. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Consider this. These arguments are the basis on which future laws permitting infanticide may draw from.

    Source: Huffington Post
    Slate weighs in on the same article.

    My point in this is to further illustrate the significance of recognizing that people draw lines in different places, and that this may be in flux.
     
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  17. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    As you see, we can discuss the issue as long as we avoid the labels. When we look at the several places in which different people might draw their lines, there will be a point where most of us will consider anything on the other side of this line to be evil. The inability to recognize this is what brought about the atrocities that occurred during the Nazi regime and in other places and times throughout the world. As long as we don't assign the word "evil" as a label to anyone else involved in the discussion, the topic can be discussed. First of all, as a label used to describe a person, it isn't accurate. Secondly, we won't all agree about the point at which something becomes evil and lastly, it isn't helpful to label people because then the discussion ends and war begins.
     
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  18. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Most of the people I know are prochoice and not one would draw the line that far out..most agree ASAP.
     
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  19. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    Yes @Ken Anderson , people make their own choices. IMO, this is going to get worse as the years go by. I am not surprised that there are folks that think taking an innocent life (imo) is ok. I am so glad there is the other "side" that fight for the rights of the babies, who may not be out of the womb yet, but are still alive, as well as those that are already out of the womb. I will say again that I do believe there are times for abortion such as the fetus had died. That's the main one I think of.

    I meant to "quote" your post ken and thought I had, this is about your post, the long one up above.
     
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  20. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Neither one of those are okay and what's more, they are unhelpful and unkind.
     
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  21. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    That's why I've never said it on the forum. And believe me it's hard, when I read some of these my BP rises.

    I'm not talking ones like who killed JFK..to me those are more like unsolved crimes. Or that the govt hides some things...to me that's normal and not some ct.
     
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  22. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I don't think anyone here is arguing that abortion is all right, which suggests that it's no different than killing a spider or tying your shoes. I think that everyone here has some qualms about abortion. But that's not the same as saying that it should be illegal or that a seventeen year-old girl who makes that choice should be imprisoned for life on a charge of murder. I don't think anyone here is insisting that you accept that abortion is all right, either. I don't. The main thing that we need to do here is avoid labeling people who draw their lines in a different place than you do.
     
    #47
  23. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Why would someone like me who loves babies more than anything want to kill them? I don't, but I still think that
    Women should have that choice as soon as they find out they're pregnant.

    In today's world...they will do it anyway, law or no law. There are always ways to get what you want, it will just cost more and may endanger the life of a scared 15 yr old but they'll do it.
     
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  24. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    I never thought anyone here was trying to insist that "I" accept abortion, don't know where that came from. I don't think a woman should go to prison if she is uninformed about ALL there is regarding abortions. I don't think that the fight against abortion is going to succeed, I wish that it would, but I don't believe it will. It's all about numbers, how many votes for, how many against, I mean if it was to vote to reverse roe vs wade. I respect others right to believe as they do, I know I have my right, and choice.

    I don't see where you thought, I thought (lol) someone was arguing with me. I had planned not to discuss this, or anything that seems to get so easily misunderstood, taken personally. I just am not good enough at expressing my feelings/thoughts sometimes. But whatever. I have my beliefs, and others have theirs.
     
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  25. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I'm not going to go back to see if you actually said it because it doesn't really matter at this point, but you have implied that people who believe in conspiracy theories were crazy. Like the abortion topic, that has led to some hurt feelings as well. I am not saying this by way of a reprimand, but simply to point out that it hasn't been entirely one way.

    I don't believe most of the conspiracy theories that I come across, and I don't even believe some of the ones that I post in the forum, but I do believe that there are conspiracies going on all around us, and it can be fun and interesting to discuss them, or to consider the possibilities. The 9/11 Trade Towers, for example. I do not believe that we are being told the truth about what happened that day, but that doesn't mean that I believe that Alex Jones or anyone else with a web site has the answers to what actually occurred.

    I surely don't believe in Bigfoot, but I suppose it's theoretically possible. I have watched several Bigfoot documentaries, and it certainly doesn't hurt to talk about it. Coast-to-Coast is on the radio on our bedroom every night and, although I don't stay up all night listening to it, I hear bits and pieces. Some of it is crazy stuff but others make sense to me, and most of it is interesting. Anyone who doesn't get any enjoyment out of discussing such things doesn't have to read that thread or participate in it. Anyone is welcome to think that I'm crazy to waste my time on it, but there is no benefit in calling me crazy.

    On the other hand, I don't know if I've posted anything about the djinn here but I have read a few books about djinn and consider them to be a reasonable answer to many cryptozoological creatures that people claim to have seen throughout the ages. Can I prove that the djinn exist? I don't even know that I believe they do. Certainly I can't prove that they do, but I don't think that I am crazy for having taken an interest in the possibility, and if someone were to call me crazy for even considering it, I would probably ignore it publicly but I wouldn't feel good about it.

    Like with the abortion discussions, anyone who isn't comfortable discussing the subject doesn't have to read or participate in it, but there's no point in being angry because someone else is talking about it or assigning labels, and when I say this, please understand that I am talking to everyone and about any controversial topic, not just you.
     
    #50
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
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