Russia / United States

Discussion in 'History & Geography' started by Martin Alonzo, Apr 7, 2018.

  1. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    Just a thought no proof. Russia came to the aid of the US when it was fighting against England. I know that was a long time ago but maybe nothing has really changed. Russia has been fighting hard to get rid of corruption and now has a strong Christian background. Why is Europe deep state so against Russia why would they make claims against Russia even before they have proof of anything. The deep state is going crazy trying to say there is a link to Russian involvement in the US election with no proof. It seem that they are so afraid that the US and Russia finding common ground religion or the idea of fighting corruption. It would not surprise me to find they have been working together to bring down the deep state. Both leader are strong men and united the deep state has no chance. Also it would not surprise me that Trump called Putin and ask what diplomats do you want to change out and we will have them removed for you. Syria Mr Putin would you please remove all planes from this air strip as we are going to bomb it if you want to leave some junk behind it is OK.
    Why are they trying so hard to keep these man apart???
     
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  2. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I wouldn't be too sure that Russia is on our side. Russia is on Russia's side, but we have areas of common interest and we should take advantage of those. I think we have more in common with Russia than China, for example.

    I don't like everything that Trump does, but I never thought I would, but I do get the idea that he is on the side of the United States, whereas it always seemed that Obama was working against US interests.

    I think that the Russia thing has more to do with making sure that Trump doesn't have any successes than a true hatred for Russia on the part of the Democrats. When the Democrats are in charge, they have no problem entering into agreements with Russia. For example, Hillary making a deal with Russia for uranium, and Obama promising Putin that he would have more latitude after the 2012 election.

    I don't care about Russia, but I think that it would be in our best interests to work with them in areas where we have common interests, and to generally have better relationships with Russia. That doesn't mean trusting Putin to look out for our interests, but acknowledging that there are areas where our interests may coincide and taking advantage of that.

    One thing that the Democrats and the neoconservatives in the Republican Party don't want is for Trump to have major successes, and I think that's what it's about. Probably some other things as well, but that's part of it.
     
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  3. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    I agree with you, Ken. I believe that most of the to-do has nothing to do with Russia; rather it is an effort to make Trump's job as difficult as possible. Martin, any war that Russia fought on our side against Britain was long ago and before the Russian Revolution, therefore a different (form of) government. For the most part the Democrats admire the Russians/Soviets and would like more of that form of government here. FDR was certainly a fan of Stalin, admired his accomplishments, and sent workers to study his methods. He didn't think he had enough political support to implement them here, but he did experiment with Communism. If you read in depth accounts of the Matanuska Colony Project here in Alaska during the Depression, you can see the themes of Communism throughout the entire thing. No, Democrats are not anti-Russia, Anti-Communist, or anti-dictator; they are just anti-Trump since he is trying to dismantle some of the "mini-dictatorships" they have set up within the government such as the EPA and The Department of Energy. He also wants to re-structure Homeland Security and the Justice Department to make them more effective and less partisan.
     
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Russia was our ally during World War II, albeit an uneasy one. There too, there was no love between the two countries but we had a common interest.
     
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  5. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    They were briefly in WWI too, but in neither case was it against Britain.
     
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  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Those who will criticize Trump for any overtures that he makes toward Russia will often argue that we can't trust Putin. Of course, we can't trust Putin, and we shouldn't trust Putin, but that doesn't mean that we don't sometimes share common interests. I wouldn't trust Justin Trudeau or Theresa May either, but we still have relations with Canada and the United Kingdom, and I certainly wouldn't trust Xi Jinping, but no one is suggesting we cut relations with China.
     
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  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I don't think we've been at war with Britain since the War of 1812, have we?
     
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  8. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    Nope. That must have been the war Martin was referring to when he said Russia was on our side against Britain. Russia was trying to become a naval power as a legacy to Peter the Great, and they viewed Britain as their main competitor in the Baltic, North Sea and North Atlantic. Their assistance would have been inconsequential.
     
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  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Yeah, I didn't think they played a major role in the War of 1812.
     
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  10. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Russia and England fought with the French. It was Napoleon's ill fated invasion of Russia, that led to massive losses and freed England to reinforce the blockade of the U.S. and plan 4 invasions of U.S. soil (Burning of the capital being one). While Russia did not enter into war with the U.S., the Czar of Russia did originally propose negotiations between the U.S. and England, however it was rejected. The Treaty of Ghent finally ended the war.
     
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  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    The Russians tried to warn us about the Boston Bombers, or one of the brothers, at least. They advised the US that he had been radicalized prior to their setting off the bombs.
     
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  12. Hal Pollner

    Hal Pollner Very Well-Known Member
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    It was the Russian Army who forced Germany to surrender, with the help of Patton's 3rd Army.

    Russia suffered millions killed, both military and civilian.

    America did not suffer nearly as many military deaths, and no civilians deaths, as the war was not on American soil.

    Hal
     
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  13. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    Hal you are right German spend a lot of troops and hardware to fight Russia. If that did not happen they would have easily over run England and the out come would have been very different. If you look at media and movies it was the US who saved the world
     
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  14. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    We can all thank the Heavens Hitler was defeated, the World would have been in a catastrophic state
    An evil man with evil plans
     
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  15. Thomas Stearn

    Thomas Stearn Well-Known Member
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    Here's a view from a more European perspective. First of all, what is Europe? All 28 member states of the EU or only the old established ones in western Europe or Europe as a whole including non-EU states? Who knows what it feels like to live under Russian rule? I do because I had to grow up under it and so have millions of people in Eastern Europe. They have a different perspective, too. The EU as a whole is deeply divided not only over what kind of relationship it should have with Russia, over sanctions etc.pp. but also over many other issues and so is each of its member states internally.
    There is no united Europe but a very inwardly torn one. Western Europe's relationship with Russia in particular has always been ambivalent for various good reasons. Clearly, both are mutually dependent on each other economically and this interdependence between geopolitical rivalry and a partnership for modernization has always been extremely troublesome and fragile. Yet alternatives are rare. Geopolitically, the annexation of Crimea has frightened many central and east European as well as the baltic EU-member states because it reminds them immediately of the Soviet invasion of Prague and of life under Communist Russia's rule. The war in the Eastern Ukraine and Putin's hybrid warfare and networking are perceived to be just as frightening. Putin's policy against the media, the civil society and the opposition in his country is also being frowned upon.

    It's against this historically rooted background of mistrust and suspicion against Russia among politicians, the economy and large parts of the population in European countries that EU policy has to be seen. Admittedly, it's very unfortunate that Britain has not given convincing evidence to the public and that there is also dissent on the Scripal affair. Cui bono? The Kremlin can exploit this European weakness and can take advantage of this disagreement.
    What's the way ahead for the EU? I don't know, tbh. Some feel that the European answer to Trump's isolationism and to centrifugal tendencies like the Brexit can only be closer cooperation and unity within the EU as Macron also demands. Others hold that in order to curb populist forces in a number of European countries the nation state needs to be strengthened. We'll see.
     
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    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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