Outdated Ba Degree And Age Going To Hurt Wife?

Discussion in 'Senior Employment' started by Cody Fousnaugh, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    She is 67 years old with a BA Degree (Business/Accounting) she got in 1997. She has been working in the banking/mortgaging industry for almost 5 years now w/a bank. She really wanted to continue working for this bank until she reached 70, so she could get SS Late Retirement and more money. Unfortunately, she was "Written Up" for job performance two months ago and may lose her job next week. Her supervisor and Dept. VP told her that she needed improvement due to memory and some mistakes. When she got this "Notice", she applied at a few places, but nothing happened. She is really figuring that the two problems are.......her age and outdated BA Degree!

    This last January, the Department she works in was told it was being shut-down by then end of the year or earlier. So, she review/redone her resume and started looking. She did get a few interviews, but nothing serious. Fortunately, this past April it was announced by a VP that the Department was NOT going to shut down. So, she stopped looking.

    Before getting this job, a Temp Agency Manager told her that her degree is too outdated to help her get a job. Her degree did help her get the banking job, but her previous experience helped her more.

    So, with the info about her BA and age, can she continue working (get a new job) until she reaches 70? I retired on SS/Early Retirement and can't currently work due to a recent rotator cuff surgery.

    Any suggestions or is she just plain *OL?
     
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  2. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I am having trouble believing that a degree attained in 1997 would be considered outdated, as there aren't very many people who are in a position to go back to school every twenty years in order to "update" their degree. My guess is that the larger problem is her age since, despite laws prohibiting this, age discrimination is a genuine problem. To be honest, it's an understandable one in many cases. However competent a person might be, it take a while for someone to become a good fit in a new job, and most people are looking for someone who will stay longer than a few years. Don't get me wrong, as I am not saying that it's the right thing to do but it's understandable and, given the laws against age discrimination, they are likely to point to something else instead, if they give a reason at all.
     
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  3. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Sort of funny, but her brother, who is 64, told me that the owner of the small company he works for, told him that he gets upset with him because he does things to slow at work. There's that "job performance" problem again dealing with older/Senior people.........being too slow.
     
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  4. Magalina Lilis

    Magalina Lilis Active Member
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    Cody, I tend to agree with Ken about age discrimination. Companies look for workers that will be with them for the long term. Also tend to gravitate towards younger workers, so they can "mold" them to be a good fit within an organization.

    Of course, this does not mean that all opportunities are a lost cause. I, too, think a degree is a degree. No matter what year it was attained. At the same time, there are some professions that need re-certification.

    You know, I just read another thread here on this forum about free educational opportunities.
    http://www.seniorsonly.club/threads/alison-com-where-you-can-learn-for-free-get-diplomas-too.1657/

    I am a big fan of these type of sites. Although I have never participated in the one recommended by Krissttina, I often take other courses from various sites. It is an economical way to keep in touch with the curriculum out there at top universities (Harvard, Stanford, etc).

    Sure the certificate is not actually recognized to get another degree, but it does show that you are still on top of your game.
     
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  5. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    She has gone thru a number of OJT classes at work and have certificates from those. Would they help her for a new job? Not unless she gets another job working in banking/mortgaging.

    I remember, in 2008, after leaving my last job due to weather, I took both a Warehouse/Inventory Class online and a Purchasing Class online and got a Certificate for each. I had already worked in all three areas, but thought taking the classes would help me when looking for another job in Purchasing/Inventory Management........it didn't! Those classes weren't even mentioned when I had two interviews back then. Each class cost me $99. The cost seemed worth it, but at the end, didn't help me on my resume.
     
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  6. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Very Well-Known Member
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    Her best hope is to be able to keep the job she has. No one in their right mind would hire someone already past retirement age Exceptions being a greeter at walmart or a fast food place.
     
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  7. Ruth Belena

    Ruth Belena Active Member
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    The excuse that her degree is out of date is not valid:
    - Someone who took a law degree in 1997 can still practice.
    - A doctor who qualified in 1997 can still practice.
    - A senior executive who gained an MBA in the last century can continue to make executive decisions.

    Her experience in banking qualifies her for a similar job.

    Unfortunately employers can get away with age discrimination because it is difficult to prove.
     
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  8. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I taught emergency medical technology in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas. At least a third of my students were females yet very few ambulance companies would hire women for anything other than dispatching or office work, and perhaps one token female medic so they couldn't be accused of discrimination. The idea, I suppose, was that women wouldn't be able to do their part in lifting heavy patients, yet it was not at all unusual for these same companies to hire men who would regularly have to call the fire department out for lifting assistance. You're right, it's very hard to prove, and most companies will be sure to have someone who can disprove any accusation of discrimination. Still, the chances of being hired are greatly diminished.
     
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  9. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Well, if it does happen (that they let her go), she will review/update her resume again and apply to some full-time local accounting or banking/mortgaging jobs, similar to the one she has, and go from there. If she has to work for a Temp Agency on a part-time/contract basis, that would be ok with her. One thing for sure, she doesn't want to completely stop working yet. Unlike me, it's hard for her to find things to do at home and she has a real habit of getting bored at home and looking for snacks to eat. It's getting harder for her to get up in the morning to go to work, but she's had that problem for a number of years. I use to have that problem.

    If this company does release her, she will go for her SS/Full Retirement, Medicare and apply for UI.
    Shoot, even at 67 yrs. old, in just reviewing her resume, I wouldn't have a problem giving her a job. Yes, she has that good of experience!
     
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  10. Jenn Windey

    Jenn Windey Active Member
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    Okay I am going to semi disagree. I also have a BS in Business Administration with a major in Accounting and a minor in Finance. This was my second degree and I received it in 2004. Although the mechanics of accounting are still the same a major career hurdle is making sure that you have the skills to run the software's that are used today. The whole reason that I got a second degree was because my first one as a Commercial Artist had changed so much the degree was pretty useless. At the time I got that degree the computer area had not yet been established, but once it was the technology pretty much demanded you spend the time and money upgrading or be left out in the cold.

    I would not take to much stock in what a temp agency says. I have been there and done that. I too, had worked for a major bank and due to downsizing I made a jump out before I got caught. I agree that age is a huge factor because many businesses look at the cost of an older employee, because they know as fact that older employees will want a better salary and things like health care or pensions. These businesses will come up with all sorts of stuff to make you feel like you are messing up or should get out while the getting is good. To them the bottom line is they can get two younger people that would be cheaper. I am not saying it is right , I am just saying it is fact.

    I have felt that there is a population of almost senior people that are getting a raw deal in the workplace of the U.S. These people are sandwiched between even older folks that do not want to retire in an unsure economy, and a younger cheaper workforce coming in. In some cases people stuck in this age group have never been able to make gains on the career ladder simply due to the sheer numbers of people who where in the work place ahead of them. This is especially true in the better accounting positions. Because the ranks are smaller it would not be unusual to find people with degree's basically doing jobs that in the past were entry level accounting jobs, only to find that the entire department would become automated or out sourced to a cheaper place.

    My best advice is if your wife has to make a career jump to try to get in with an independent CPA or smaller firms as perhaps a book keeper or an accounting assistant. If she can maybe take the CPA exam and do that. Insurance, doctors offices and law offices will take on accountants as they usually only need one to fill the role. The pay is good but the hours can be shorter then 40 hours, which maybe a good trade off as you age. I really understand where you are right now, I have 17 more years before I can even consider retirement and fear for my job everyday. tell her to try to make sure her MOUS certification is current and to learn a software other then what she has in work, like Oracle or Quick Books. If she finds that she can do that okay she will find a new position, look off the beaten track and try networking instead. I DO NOT recommend temp agencies, they are all about making the money and will put her into what should be a high pay position for almost a fraction of what she could make. Better to go it on her own.
     
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  11. Corie Henson

    Corie Henson Very Well-Known Member
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    This is a sad topic because that inability to get further employment by the seniors is like the standard - there is virtually no employer that would hire a senior unless his qualification is exceptional like if he is a celebrity of sorts. When you reach 60, you are retired and most retirees just try to "enjoy" their life with no occupation even if they are still strong and capable. Judges here are retired at age 70 but mere employees are retired at 60. So where is justice there?
     
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  12. Diane Lane

    Diane Lane Very Well-Known Member
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    Unfortunately, those who are older and those with disabilities have been facing this type of discrimination for years. There are always ways to disguise the harsher reviews, layoffs, etc. It's good that you were able to bring up this topic here, and get real life responses from people who have dealt with, or are dealing with, similar situations. I'm not familiar with her field, but it sounds as if @Jenn Windey is, and has some helpful suggestions. I do agree with regard to staying away from temp agencies, and if your wife has contacts in the field, perhaps she can do some consulting.
     
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  13. Jenn Windey

    Jenn Windey Active Member
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    One of the best ways to combat age discrimination is to not give the potential employer a way to profile you before you even have a chance at an interview. Make sure that the resume or application you submit is totally void of any date or any thing that could suggest you are older. Even a federal job application only requests your last 7 years of employment so give them just that. You will have plenty of opportunity to sell your skills when you get that face to face interview. As far as the back ground checks go you don't sign the agreement to disclose information for back ground checks until they offer you employment anyway. Older or not- all Americans still have rights.

    Visually it is hard to sometimes determine an exact age on an older person. I have met people in their 60's, 70's and 80's and would have never guessed how old they really were had they not told me. While on the one hand I do not feel someone should have to go the lengths of cosmetic surgery and tons of hours devoted to turning back the clock, I do think it is important to appear in a manner that suggests you can handle the career requirements. I think that this is where you have to be real with yourself. If you are trying to get a position that may require you to stand for long periods, or lift heavy items, you need to be certain you can actually do this without hurting yourself. Realistically there are times when you might have real limitations. Better employers will tell you right in the beginning any physical requirements. OSHA standards are still important, and as limiting as that might seem it can be the strongest thing you have to find a position you might keep for the longest period. It has been my experience that the employers that state things like this right in want ad are the best and easiest to work for. they are more black and white as far as the requirements for the job, and they tend to follow better employment practices.
     
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  14. Hannah Davis

    Hannah Davis Active Member
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    It's sad the world that we are living in today. I have had difficulty finding steady work because I am now a woman in her fifties. I thought maybe it was my skill level, but then I looked at a family member who was having just as many difficulties who had a background in administration. They had to go back to work in the school system because it was the only work they could get. Fortunately they had this to fall back on, I don't have that type of training. As for a BA being out dated, I that is just an excuse to discriminate because of her age, which again is sad that we live in a society that doesn't see the value in hiring an older individual and what they can bring to the table.
     
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  15. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Actually, in the mid-90's, I had a retired Lt. Colonel/Army working for a State Employment Agency, tell me to leave the dates of my military service off of my resume and just put the number of years I served. I was in the Navy from the late 60's to the mid 70's and I knew, by putting on dates, I could easily be discriminated against due to my age. I was in a "no win" situation.........don't put down the dates of my military service and, most likely, the resume would be trashed, put down the dates and the high possibility of "age discrimination could easily happen.

    I have to disagree with what he told me, why?
    Back then, when companies were still having people show up at their door with a resume to fill out an application or mail in a resume, if they seen a resume with years only, they could automatically trash the resume, no matter the experience showing. HR's require dates, not years! They figure that people are hiding something when only years are shown.

    With today's "job hunting" thing, most, if not all, companies have people do online applications. Many companies don't even advertise a job opening in the Employment section of a local newspaper anymore. In doing an online app, a person must put in dates of all things. If you don't, the app process will automatically stop. My wife has never liked including her SS number on an app, when asked for it, but if she did state her SS number, the app process would automatically stop.


     
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  16. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Most of the jobs that I have had were ones that I was referred to or recruited, and when I have had to complete a job application it has been after the fact. The best paying job I have had has been with the paper company, but I first went to work with them through a temporary agency. They bought my contract out so I never had to turn in a resume or complete a job application. From there, I was recruited by another paper company in Brownsville.

    I did apply for my first full-time EMS job, which was as the EMS director and health inspector, but the mayor (who was a friend of mine) had tipped me off that I was going to be hired even before I was interviewed. I had already been volunteering with the ambulance service and fire department there. That was a fun interview, but I'll relate that story when I get around to adding that job to a thread in Jobs I Have Had.

    I did submit an application and resume when I applied for the position as program chairman for a Texas State Technical College program, as well as go through an interview.

    Otherwise, there have been a couple of jobs that I've had where I had to fill out an application months after I was hired, so that they could have one on file, but I don't have much experience in finding work that way.
     
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  17. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    When she home yesterday, she told me that her supervisor and the Dept. VP called her into the supervisor's office to tell her that the 30th of next month (Oct) would be her last day and that she would be getting a Severance Package. They told her that her position is being eliminated. Later she also found out that another lady that works in the Department got the same notice and she is 62 yrs. old.

    Originally, my wife wasn't going to get a Severance Package due to being told she could be let go. That has now changed since her position is being eliminated and she isn't being fired.

    One good part of this is that she will still get her week off of vacation the first week of October.

    We are happy that we finally know what's going to happen now. She is now redoing her resume and will be looking for another job........full-time or Temp.
     
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  18. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Now, due to part of her Severance Package, she is going to be receiving some Resume help from the bank she works for. Apparently her Supervisor and the Dept. VP are confident that she is going to sign the Release Form, which entitles her to the Severance Package, that she is being offered this assistance before even signing the Form. Now, it's in her Release Form that if she starts a new job before her last day next month, she will not get the Severance Package. So, obviously she wants to "stick it out" thru the day she is release so she can get that Package. Also, if she was to apply for, and get, a job with the same bank........no Severance Package given then either. So, she won't be working for this bank again.

    Actually, I'm very glad she will be getting this help with her resume. To me, her resume is a little too intense and it sort of looks like she is looking for a job as a Manager, which she definitely doesn't want. Her and I have discussed it and she isn't "management" material at all. She was a manager one time and the job didn't work out.
     
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  19. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Well, she's getting this employment help from the bank thru her Severance Package, BUT they sure are asking her some weird stuff. The "employment coach" did make her resume look much better than it did, but now he wants to know her "networking sources". In other words, people's names that she knows, who might know of any openings anywhere. Thing is, she really doesn't know anyone like this. She is on website, LinkedIn, but that website has never helped her find a job. She plans on telling the "employment coach" that her "networking sources" are confidential. I agree with her. Kiddingly, I told her "tell that "employment coach", "If I don't find a job after this help from you (organizing my resume'), you will be the first one to know about it".

    He's also telling her about having multiple resume's. That so she can emphasis on one resume', the type of job she is applying for. One problem with having multiple resume's...........giving the wrong resume' for what you're applying for. It would be sort of embarrassing, during an interview, to asked "just what job are you applying for here? This resume doesn't match the job you are applying for. Did you know that?"
    Yep, totally embarrassing!

    Have to see what happens.
     
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  20. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Very Well-Known Member
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    Well, wife was out of job for exactly 30 days........started a new one today with a major insurance company, making a higher salary than she did with the last bank mortgaging job. Same distance to new job (7 miles) as was to bank job, but does have to drive on the freeway for 5 miles. The freeway drive is good, because she will be going south while heavy traffic is going north.

    The online app she filled out did ask for her Social Security number and her birth date. She had to put her SS number, because the app process wouldn't let her go any further without it. As far as her birth date went, she only put the month and day, but, after getting the "job offer", the corporate office did call her and ask for the year that she left off of the online app. And, believe it or not, the university she got her BA degree from, had no record of her in their system. She had to make a copy of her Degree, that was in a frame on the wall, and e-mail it to the corporate office.

    Now, the funny part of this is, she takes her lunch to work. Most office workers don't take their lunch to work.......they generally leave the office for lunch or order take-out.

    We hope this job works out for her, but won't know for awhile. If it doesn't........she doesn't like it or she doesn't pass the Probation period, she will go temp and we will most likely prepare to move back to Colorado/south Denver. If she does get thru the Probation Period, she will only stay for a year and a half and then we will head back to Colorado in May of 2017.
     
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