Nanny State

Discussion in 'Education & Learning' started by Martin Alonzo, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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  2. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    Geeez. Yep, you can always find some morons who want to throw their weight around- and they will, if they're allowed to get away with it.

    One of the dopiest examples I encountered: the first high school I attended (covered grades 7-12) had what might be called a closed-campus policy.
    Staff needed to know how each student was getting to and from school, and no one was allowed off the school property without either a note from a parent or permission from a staff member.
    To be straightforward about it, the principal was a moron- and a bully. It's beyond me how/why he wasn't removed from his position.
    Anyway- two students, a brother & sister (grades 9 & 7) were harassed by this guy, and their parents brought into it, because the students went home for lunch.
    Here's the really dopey part: their home was next door to the school, and all that separated the school property from theirs was a small driveway, yet the students weren't allowed to 'leave school property to go home for lunch.'

    While I can see around the news that it's getting weirder and worse (like the examples from your links), this occurred around 1972.
     
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  3. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    There is a lot going on with "govenment authorities" changing laws so they can have control of our children. Many of these changes have been made in the Child Welfare System so that this system actually has more authority over children now than the parents of those children have. It might not bother us so much since the majority of us aren't raising children anymore. But if you are a grandparent you might want to take a closer look at what is happening here. It's something that has been going on for quite a while too....the tearing down of our Constitutional Rights and Freedoms in every area of our lives.

    https://www.facebook.com/bringthestanleykidshome/info/?tab=page_info

    This is one family that was torn apart that I took a stand for....
     
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  4. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    That's exactly what I've been thinking for a long time... it's like they're trying to phase out parents so parents are essentially obsolete. They don't want parents to be involved in their own kids' lives, and they don't want parents to have the authority.
    I'm not an expert at history, but it seems it started when 'They' started trying to con parents into believing parents do not have what it takes to 'socialize' their young children or provide 'early childhood education.'
    And when public schools now have everything from social workers to security guards, it should show those 'experiments' did not work.
     
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  5. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I agree. And it is also on the Agenda of the United Nations for the whole World's children...it is disguised as wanting the best for our children. When I can find the exact agenda item I will post the link here.
     
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  6. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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  7. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    #7
  8. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    Well, in my opinion, the whole thing reeks of Communism.
    And bad sci-fi that's become a reality.
     
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  9. Diane Lane

    Diane Lane Very Well-Known Member
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    How many times do you hear the phrase, "It takes a village to raise a child"? and of course it's helpful for parents to have extended family and friends who can pitch in at times, but it takes parents (or substitutes, if needed) to raise a child. The government has been trying to usurp parental roles and control over their children for quite a while now, as far as I'm concerned. It seems the more something is repeated these days, the more brainwashed 'followers' become, and start to believe it. I do think we need to have some laws to protect children. I've seen severe cases of abuse and/or neglect, and ideally those children should have been removed before that happened, but despite how stringent the rules are, they still seem to be able to work around the system and get their children back (or have others they subsequently abuse/neglect.) And, I've also seen good parents harassed and families disrupted by those same laws.
     
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  10. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I wanted to make sure I was right about who I first heard say: "It takes a village to raise a child." And I was...it was Hillary Clinton who I first heard make that statement. And she wrote a book about this titled "It Takes a Vilage"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Takes_a_Village
    220px-Clinton_Village.jpg


    No, it doesn't take a village...it takes a Family to raise a child. I was really happy to see that the link I posted shows many don't agree with Hillary about it taking a village. And in writing that book she has exposed her Agenda for our children...which is let the Govenment have control of them and not their parents. I wonder if she still feels that way now that she is a grandmother?
     
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  11. Diane Lane

    Diane Lane Very Well-Known Member
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    @Babs Hunt Yes, I thought it was her, and we know her agenda. We (in this forum) have all been around the block a time or two and seen things, and know what's up more than many these days, and it's scary how that movement has taken over and been accepted. I actually planned to work in the school system, but I just couldn't do it after sitting in on some of the meetings and seeing how things worked. I would not put a child in public school these days, because they are leftist indoctrination camps.

    I posted about it elsewhere, I believe in the Reading thread, but I highly recommend reading Days of Rage by Bryan Burrough. It's about the leftist groups around during the 60s and 70s, where they've been, and where they are today. It's a very interesting read.
     
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  12. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    My goodness @Diane Lane...I am being blessed by others with some really good books to read (that I haven't read) lately. Thanks for sharing the one you have with me. I'm going to go back to my Library's website and see if they have that one to check out too.

    My oldest daughter is a teacher in the public school system here in Louisiana and I can see how miserable she is in that system. I knew this "stuff" was going on even when I was raising my kids and I wanted to home school them since we couldn't afford private Christian schools at the time. My ex had been a teacher before we married and he did not want me home schooling...so I did the next best thing...I made sure I knew what was being taught to my children, stood up to what I did not agree with and taught my children to question what was being taught to them too. It wasn't a perfect solution but I can say without a doubt that all three of my daughters have minds of their owns and don't just believe anything just because someone tells them that is the way it is. As for my daughter that is teaching in the public school system I don't think she will be there much longer...I see the stress etc. getting worse every time we visit with each other.
     
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  13. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    I hope this doesn't turn into a major rant, but I'd like to know what you all think about it.
    Between myself, my siblings, and my kids, we attended a variety of schools in the U.S., and before the last school my youngest attended all the schools/districts had a policy:
    When a student stays home from school because he/she doesn't feel well, the parent wrote a note explaining the absence- "Billy stayed home yesterday because he had a stomach-ache."
    Depending how the school was set up, when the student returned to school he/she would deliver the "excuse note" to the school nurse or the attendance office.
    Makes sense, right? Isn't that the way "we all " did it?

    So, I was kinda confused when I was informed of a school policy in the last district. Excuse notes from parents were unacceptable, and remained unacceptable even if parent backed it up with a phone call. These approaches were deemed "unexcused absences," and there were repercussions to the student's school record.
    The policy: in order to qualify as an excused absence, the returning student needed to bring in a note from a doctor.
    Initially I thought they wanted to ensure kids weren't bringing contagious illnesses to school, but that wasn't it at all. When I approached the school board to inquire about this, one new member was helpful but all the long-time board members brushed me off except one. One of the most long-time members replied (as close as I can get to her exact words): too many parents here do not care if their kids go to school or not, and are perfectly willing to write phony excuse notes for their kids. In other words, she was saying parents are unconcerned about their kids' educations, and are untrustworthy liars.

    In addition: in most cases when a student stays home, all he/she really needs is a quiet day of rest. Most parents know the difference between that and instances that require medical attention (such as strep throat -> see doctor for antibiotics). Not only is this policy inconvenient for students, and parents who are either at work or don't have cars, it's an unnecessary burden on doctors/nurses/ER's/clinics that need to put their time and effort into helping people who have serious illnesses or injuries.

    Well, that's it in brief- what do you think?
     
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  14. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    It's been that way for quite awhile now Janice. I don't agree with it but I have found that if you have a Family Doctor that has been in your family for awhile that you can usually just call their Office and they will write out an excuse for you to pick up with out you having to make an appointment for your child. Some of the School Districts felt they had to do this because the kids in the higher grades were cutting school and forging excuses from parents or having a friend call in to excuse them....and the parents were clueless about this until the kids got caught, etc. So now everyone has to "pay" for the wrongs of some.

    And there are actually parents that don't care if there children go to school or not....
     
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  15. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I think that the overall agenda is for the schools to supplant parents in child-raising decisions. It gets worse every year, but I have seen a school counselor try to tell a 15 year old girl's mother that she was wrong to ground her daughter from football games, where she was a cheerleader, after she returned home from a game at 4:00 in the morning one night. The counselor was maybe 21, but she looked 18 at best.

    Rather than being impressed when parents teach their children to read before they start school now, I know of parents who were told that it is best to leave that to the schools.

    We raised a nephew who had reactive attachment disorder, which required consistency, yet the schools were continually undermining our authority, or rewarding bad behavior, so we homeschooled him after one semester. Even at that, they tried to tell us they didn't know if they could approve that. I told the principal then, that I wasn't asking for approval, but that I was just letting them know he wouldn't be back in the fall. In Maine, homeschooling is a right -- no permission necessary.

    Schools are involved in every aspect of a child's life today.
     
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  16. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    There was also a case where a young teen complained to his School Counselor that his parents made him go to Church with them on Sundays. The Counselor told the young man that his parents didn't have the right to do that and when the parents went to speak to that Counselor about this...the parents were reported to Social Services and this whole thing ended up in Family Court with the Judge telling the parents they could take their child home but only if they did not make him go to Church anymore. :eek: Our children and grandchildren are being taken away from us more each year...and there are way to many parents and grandparents who aren't even aware of this and won't be until it affects them in some way.
     
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  17. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    What's with all of the meals that are served by the schools too, even on weekends? Meanwhile, the schools get to decide whether parents are feeding their kids right. How have we allowed so much of the power to be transferred from parents and families to schools and government?
     
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  18. Diane Lane

    Diane Lane Very Well-Known Member
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    @Babs Hunt I have a friend who's working in a public school setting. She and I used to be pretty aligned with regard to values, but she's become totally radicalized while working there, and unfortunately, we rarely speak these days. Another friend works in a different district that is more conservative, but I honestly don't understand how anyone can deal with the tyrannical educational systems these days.

    I have always required a lot of autonomy in my positions, and can't handle being micromanaged, which is how school districts are run these days. I think that's one reason so many children are having issues and being labeled. In the past, individualism was recognized and appreciated, as long as it was appropriate, of course, but these days, if one stands out, s/he is hammered down, whether through disciplinary action, peer pressure, or medication.
     
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  19. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    1972!! Not very much after I graduated: then, they were considering guards for the cafeteria. The eating place was the most dangerous place in the joint! I thought then, at 18, "ridiculous", still think that.
     
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  20. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    One of my daughters who was in the "Honors" program at her High School suddenly stopped wanting to go to school and when I asked her why she told me that she wasn't learning anything there anymore and hated going. There was one teacher she had in the Honors Program that couldn't even spell the words the correct way in the Courses she was teaching. Even when my daughter and other students reported this, they were told by the Principle, etc. that there was nothing they could do about this because the Teacher had "tenure" and so they could not fire her. The other problem that caused my daughter to lose interest in school was that even though she was in an Honors program, many of the Students did not get what was being taught, so many days the Teacher had to go over the same Lesson again and again. If the Teacher wasn't having to do this, she was having to spend her teaching time disciplining the rowdy students who stopped her teaching again and again too.

    Then one day my daughter came home early because there was a bomb threat called in to her school. This happened twice. So now my daughter wasn't able to learn what she was going to school for...and she now was fearful of going to school. I took her out of the Public School System that day and registered her as a Home Schooler with the School Board. She was about half way through her Junior year of High School at that time. The School Board over here will actually give you most of the books she needs to learn from (just make sure you are following what those books are teaching) and once I had everything I needed I taught her the subjects I was best in like History, etc. and her older sister (by 10 years) taught her the Math and Sciences.

    After a month or two of Home Schooling my daughter still didn't seem to be interested in learning anymore. I thought maybe we just weren't teaching her correctly. So I ordered an accredited Video Home Schooling Curriculum for her which cost a pretty penny. Even with that she still had no interest in learning. I admit I got upset and thought she was just being lazy, etc. So one day I told her that was it! If she didn't want to learn then she was now 17 and could just quit school and go get a job. She had always told me she wanted to go to College so what was happening with her didn't make sense to me at all...and she couldn't...or wouldn't tell me what was going on in her head either. So I told her it was up to her, she could work part time and if she still wanted to go to College then she would need to study and get her GED and then take the ACT for College Entrance. She got a part time job and then one day out of the blue, she came home told me she had gone to check about her GED and she took a test over there and passed it with flying colors! That day she had her GED without even having to study for it. Then about a month later she went and took the ACT test...and scored a 24 the very first time. She only needed a score of 17 to enter College.

    I know this is kind of long but I hope that's okay. What it all boiled down to is my daughter already knew all the stuff they were teaching her in the Public School System and she knew what we were trying to continue to teach her at home too. She successfully went on to College and has a B.A. and an M.A. She is a wonderful Respiratory Therapist and hopes to use her M.A. in Hospital Business Administration when her children are older.

    Most of today's Public School Systems are not learning institutions anymore and should be the last place in my opinion we should send our children or grandchildren.
     
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  21. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    No child left behind means that no child is allowed to get ahead.
     
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  22. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I couldn't agree more!
     
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  23. Diane Lane

    Diane Lane Very Well-Known Member
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    I think many of the Honors and Gifted & Talented programs these days are the equivalent of what was the normal level of expectation back in our days. One thing it does it make the children think they are smarter than their parents, and they then look down on their parents. I believe the curricula have been adjusted to make it more difficult for parents to help their children with homework, to drive a wedge between them, and instill disrespect for the parents. Doing this makes the children more susceptible to programming in the schools, and helps those systems to instill different values than those held by their parents, which can lead to social change.
     
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  24. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    When the Honors, and Gifted, etc. Programs started out they were a good thing...and I believe a way of letting those who understood what was being taught the first time around, go on to learning the next things. The teachers who taught regular classes could spend more time going over what they were teaching until the majority of students "got it." A problem developed when the teachers with tenure were moved to these Honors and Gifted Programs even though they were not "gifted" to teach these higher Programs. There was also a problem when some students might be gifted in only one subject, etc. The subjects they weren't gifted in they struggled in and therefore many in the Class had to struggle right along with them through no fault of their own. All three of my daughters were in the Gifted and Honors, etc. Programs and there was never a problem (thank God) with any of them thinking or treating me like they were smarter than me. I've taught my daughters from the time they were little that our Creator has blessed us all with different gifts and vocations and that's part of what makes us all unique and one of a kind individuals. And that all of these gifts and vocations are equal in importance, etc. in God's eyes and should be in ours too.

    My oldest daughter is ten years older than her two younger sisters....and there has been a world of different in how Public Schools have changed since my oldest daughter went through the system and my other two did. Now the changes I see my grandchildren going through in their Public Schools make me wish I could win the lottery so I could sent them all to good Christian private schools. Just like our broken down Government that needs to be torn down and rebuilt...our Public Schools need to be broken down, razed, and rebuilt from the ground up.
     
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  25. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    The best, I think, is a Christian or secular private school that combines online or remote learning with hands-on teaching, which can allow students to move ahead at their own pace in the subjects that they are gifted in, or at a regular speed in subjects that don't come so easy to them. Generally, I think this is best done in a smaller school. We homeschooled our nephew for a few years, then enrolled him in a Christian school in high school, so that he could get an actual diploma, rather than a GED. While in regular school, he was not particularly motivated to do well and, in fact, would often complete the first half of a test with few or no errors, then answer the last half of the test by checking random answers, as if he either needed to prove that he could do it right if he wanted or that he got bored with tests halfway through and didn't care about such things as grades. While homeschooling him, I would do the instructional part, then let him complete his workbooks or tests in whatever amount of time he wanted to take. He soon learned that he could be done with school for the day if he just did it, or he could be stuck with it all afternoon. That worked and, at the Christian school, while he wasn't motivated by letter grades, they were able to motivate him to move ahead of others of his classmates, which is pretty much the opposite the goals of public school.
     
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