Light Bulb Wars!

Discussion in 'Energy & Fuel' started by Ted Richards, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Terry Page

    Terry Page Supreme Member
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    Here in Russia in a typical way of how the laws are overcome, when the authorities followed Europe in initially banning 100W incandescent bulbs, the manufacturers immediately commenced production of 92W bulbs, which are still on sale to this day because the original law was never changed. ;)

    A bit off topic but beer was regarded as a soft drink here until 2013, so it could be bought anywhere and at any age until the law changed ..... :eek:

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has signed a bill that officially classifies beer as alcoholic.
    Until now anything containing less than 10% alcohol in Russia has been considered a foodstuff.
     
    #16
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  2. Sheldon Scott

    Sheldon Scott Supreme Member
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    The new LEDs are much better than any previous types. We had fluorescent tubes in a bathroom, replaced them with an LED fixture and it's much better. I have been replacing the twisted tubes (CFLs) with LEDs as they burn out.
     
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  3. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I don't mind the LEDs now that they're making them bright enough to read by. I hate the curly bulbs, and they were the only alternative for a while after they took the incandescent bulbs off the market, which was insane given the mercury that's put into the landfills whenever someone replaces one, or into the house whenever one is broken.
     
    #18
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  4. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Supreme Member
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    I don't know what we use. The CFLs I guess, those tubular circles giving off white light. I was opposed to them but my roommate wanted them. We replaced all bulbs in the house and garage. I broke one once while replacing it. My roommate said you're not suppose to handle them like you're doing. I said this is no longer a light bulb, it's a mess and I picked up the larger pieces and swiped up the rest. I've never known what you're supposed to do.
     
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  5. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    By Maine law, we are not supposed to dispose of CFL bulbs in the regular trash, but as designated collection facilities, which most towns don't have. Pretty much everyone tosses them in the trash, and I am sure they knew that everyone would do that when they passed the stupid law. Even worse, if a CFL bulb breaks, we're supposed to pay to have a special cleanup crew take care of it. Yeah, like anyone is going to do that every time they drop a light bulb. There seems to be no doubt that the potential harm caused to the environment by the mercury-filled CFL bulbs far outweighed whatever the problem with incandescent bulbs was supposed to have been.
     
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  6. Terry Page

    Terry Page Supreme Member
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    The problem with incandescent bulbs was there short life and high energy consumption, the overall effect on the environment is shown in the graph below, but the disposal and harm caused by the dangerous chemicals such as mercury used in cfl bulbs is another factor, but the energy saved can be weighed against this.

    LINK
    [​IMG]

    LINK
    More than half of the electricity generated in the United States is made by burning coal, which contains mercury. As the coal is burned, the mercury is vaporized and sent up the smoke stack. Mercury in vapor form is much more dangerous than in the solid state form used in the manufacturing of CFLs. Furthermore, coal power plants are the single largest source of mercury emissions into the environment. According to the Environmental Protection Agency, the mercury released from powering an incandescent bulb over five years is 10 milligrams; however, only 2.4 milligrams of mercury is released over the same period of time to power a comparably luminous CFL. Thus, by using up to 75% less energy than incandescent lamps, CFLs decrease the amount of greenhouse gas emissions in our atmosphere and help off-set global warming.

    Standard CFLs contain approximately 4 milligrams of mercury inside the tube. When the 2.4 milligrams of mercury emissions from the coal power plant is added, the total environmental impact of a CFL is 6.4 milligrams of mercury. Compare that to 10 milligrams of mercury emissions released by the incandescent light bulb; the CFL has 3.6 less milligrams of mercury. In the long run, CFLs have a lower mercury content than incandescent. To make the biggest environmental impact, look for CFLs that have the lowest mercury content.

    For example, Neolite CFLs only contain 1 milligram of mercury inside the tube. That’s 75% less mercury than the industry standard! With only 3.4 milligrams of mercury used over the course of its life, Neolite yields the greatest reduction of mercury emissions, making it a much safer lamp for the environment.

    [​IMG]
     
    #21
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  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    We didn't notice any improvement in our light bill when we switched to them and, while the CFL bulbs lasted a long, long time before they took the incandescent bulbs off the market, they have since been manufacturing them to burn out within a year or less. Some of the first ones we bought, while they still had to compete with the incandescent bulbs, are still working. The newer ones we bought lasted less than a year. I don't suppose they can make a profit by producing bulbs that last seven years so they are manufactured to burn out. The LEDs, I can live with but we're no long wasting money on the curly bulbs.
     
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  8. Terry Page

    Terry Page Supreme Member
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    I like the LED ones but find they are hit and miss, some fail after a few weeks others have lasted a couple of years so far, I think all our CFL ones in the UK have been replaced now
    The majority of bulbs being sold here in Russia are still incandescent probably 90%, it's down to cost they only cost 20 cents against several $ for CFLs and even more for LEDs
     
    #23
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  9. Neville Telen

    Neville Telen Veteran Member
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    Well, guess I can't challenge the energy consumption, but the short life bit I would call a foul on. Not at all my experience. Incandescent bulbs lasted an average of three to three and a half months, and this was back when I was not turning off the lights when I left a room. I would also mention that by adding those thingies called 'light bulb life extenders' I had bulbs that lasted six months, plus I never got a bad incandescent bulb (one that went out in a week or two). Lets compare that to the current rot. Before I started turning off lights they lasted no more than two months. By turning off lights, I have managed to get their life to two and a half months. As for quality control, there is none I think. At least every few months I get stuck with a bulb that burns out in a week or two. So lets talk expense. Incandescent bulbs I paid about $3 for a 150 watt. For the new junk bulbs a 150 watt costs nearly $5. So as I see it, in return for saving power I get:
    1. A 150 watt bulb that does not output the same amount of light as a 150 watt incandescent, according to my light meter.
    2. A bulb that burns out at least two to four weeks sooner than an incandescent.
    3. A bulb where quality control is lacking....way too many 'lemons'.
    4. A bulb that costs more and obviously provides less.
    So I'm definitely no fan of the current crop, and view this as a shoddy product that is inferior to the incandescent in all ways except saving energy.
     
    #24
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  10. Neville Telen

    Neville Telen Veteran Member
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    Ran across this recently that has a bit of relevance to post #24:
     
    #25
  11. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Terry Page
    We were at our Wal-Mart a few days ago, and I spotted a product new to me: LED "fluorescent" lamps, which directly replace real fluorescents, at cost comparatively equal. Packed two to a box, under 10 dollars. I thought, what the heck, let's try 'em! Regarding your experiences with LEDs, these babies are warranteed for 5 years. Light output according to the box is 5000` Kelvin, essentially daylight. I am delighted with them so far.

    [​IMG]




    I installed the two in my 4-lamp fluorescent fixture in my shop. Had quite a time with camera to get anything better than a huge bright glaring ball of light image, but finally, got it acceptable. Below, a close-up of the new LED lamp illuminated next to a standard 40 watt Cool White fluorescent. Note the superior light output of the LED!
    [​IMG]


    Below, the entire fixture, with the two LEDs in line, and two fluorescents back to back with them.
    [​IMG]


    For comparison, here is a pic of my 96-inch two-lamp fixture, like they use commercially. It consumes 160 watts of power. By comparison, an LED equivalent with four 48-inch lamps would consume 52 watts! The huge difference between the two results from the heat energy produced even with fluorescents, which are called "cool". They get pretty warm. LEDs operate cold, produce almost no heat, certainly not measurable amounts.
    [​IMG]

    I believe the problems folks are having with LED lighting stems from improperly-designed peripheral equipment. LEDs are unique in that they require very low voltage direct current, around 5 volts maximum, each LED diode itself. In theory, an LED can never "wear out"; so long as it is fed direct current it will emit light forever, as it is a Solid State device. Failure could occur, of course, in attachment of it's wires or connection means, and the source of voltage supply.

    If LEDs were failing all over the place, the automotive and trucking industries would surely not be equipping all the newer vehicles with them. Some of the red taillights are entirely LEDs, with highlighting white ones up front in all sorts of unneeded designs!
    Frank
     
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  12. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Veteran Member
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    Not only do they put out much more light, the LED replacement bulbs seem to work better when the fluorescent fixture has a weak ballast. I replaced several bulbs on some very old cheap fluorescent fixtures in the basement that were erratic about coming on, and needed replaced. They have worked fine so far. Maybe it's just a coincidence, or due to something else, IDK.
     
    #27
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  13. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Nancy Hart
    Thank you so much for this! The thread seemed to be going against any new lighting concept, but based on what, seemed nebulous. So, you discovered these new LED replacements yourself? I had never heard of them before I spotted them a few days ago. They make sense, for sure. When lit, one can vaguely see each LED inside, the outer tube being rather frosted like the incandescent bulbs we've seen all lour lives. I counted 35 LEDs to the center, so figure about 70 per tube. They are all "glued" in place in a straight line, which must be oriented to the top of the fixture to secure maximum effectiveness.

    This leads me to wonder, and perceive yet another "imponderable". LEDs operated on alternating current, AC, will turn on and off, producing "flicker" perhaps detectable by the human eye. Fluorescents actually turn "on and off" with the AC frequency, but their phosphorescent coatings give off light for the short time they are "off", releiving us of the perceived flicker. Thus, are the LED tubes actually flickering, and we cannot see it? That is, are they not being "fed" direct current. Taken further, the simplest and most expedient way to power 70 LEDs in that tube would be to connect them in series, like the old Xmas tree lights; one light goes out, the whole string goes dead!

    I'll advance the opinion: IF the flicker on AC is not obvious, then the makers are indeed placing the LEDs in series, and if ONE fails, the lamp becomes useless. Given the warranty, they seem pretty sure of their product's integrity.

    NOW, Nancy Hart, please if you will, explain how you are able to understand the technical drivel I put forth above. Are you a Physicist? You are indeed new here, and somehow escaped my vigilance of seeing new members logging on. My usual questioning mood was whetted by your correct usage of "fluorescent".

    Sorry, I'm just so amazed. Please if you are not offended, tell us more about yourself!
    Frank
     
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  14. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Veteran Member
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    Geez @Frank Sanoica, I don't understand it, all I know is troubleshooting on the internet. They claim when a cheap fluorescent fixture is erratic about coming on, it's usually because the ballast is going bad...and it happens gradually. I don't even know what a ballast is for, but I can point to it. :)

    Anyway, new fluorescent bulbs didn't make a difference, after about a week. No problem with the LED bulbs so far. In fact I'm probably completely wrong. lol
     
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  15. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Supreme Member
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    Coincidentally, I just bought a pack of those lights, too. $8.88 plus tax. I don't understand all the Impish technical drivel but when I replaced the old light over the sink in my bathroom, I could see that it was a lot brighter. Am I a genius, or what? ;):D
     
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