Is There A Conspiracy To Take God And Biblical Principals Out Of America?

Discussion in 'Conspiracies & Paranormal' started by Babs Hunt, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    You have made some excellent points, and posed some very good questions, not just in this post but others as well.

    As a legal concept, I agree with you. I do not want a government telling me what religious views I need to hold, nor do I believe that a government should tell you which religious views you should hold. In the sense that it was intended in this country, I believe in the freedom of religion.

    But freedom of religion was intended as a constraint upon government. It was not intended to restrict people from sharing their faith, nor was it intended to force people to adopt the idea that all faiths are equal and true. In itself, that would be the opposite of freedom of religion.

    I know that you have said elsewhere that you consider your religion to be private, the assumption being that you think that others should keep their religion to themselves too.

    However, that is the opposite of what the Scriptures that I believe in tell me to to do as a Christian. Several verses of Scripture tell us that God expects us to spread our beliefs.

    In Mark 16, Christ tells His disciples to “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” When He made this command, he clearly wasn’t telling them not to annoy those who didn’t want to hear the gospel, as every one of them was greatly persecuted for following Christ’s command, and all but John were killed for having done so.

    Matthew 24 records Christ saying, “And this gospel will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

    Matthew 28:19-20: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

    Revelation 14:6-7: “Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell upon the earth — to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people — saying with a loud voice, ‘Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgement has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.’”

    Psalms 96:3: “Declare His glory among the nations, His wonders among all peoples.”

    Yet, we continually hear about man-made global warming. :)

    There is more than one belief when it comes to religion, but there is only one truth. What you don't seem to understand is that, to a Christian who truly believes, it is a fact to them, and if they are right about what they believe, then it is a fact to everyone. A fact is a fact, regardless of who believes it.

    Facts are not always provable. For example, if someone is charged with a crime, it may be a fact that he is wholly and entirely innocent of the crime, but the prosecution may nevertheless be able to convict him. So it may be a fact that someone is innocent of a crime, while simultaneously being a fact that he has been found guilty of the crime by a judge or a jury.

    True enough. There are facts, but we may not know what they are until the end. What we accept as fact, we accept on faith, but faith that is based on evidence.

    Good question, and one that I have asked elsewhere in the forum. Many people do have a faith that is strong enough to overrule the natural human fear of death. Perhaps it is a fear of the unknown, since the Bible doesn't give a clear idea of just what heaven is going to be like.

    Not every Christian is assured of his salvation, however.

    "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling." -- Philippians 2:12
     
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  2. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    They do indeed, @Chrissy Page and thank you for saying this! I've not tackled this thread since I got back because I don't feel like either having to defend my beliefs or be attacked for them. I'm usually a lot more spunky than I am at the moment but life's been blow after blow for about 6 weeks now!

    I'm Methodist... always been Methodist, even back when it was still EUB. I have a long line of Lutheran ministers in my ancestry. Lately (well for half a year now) I've sat in on some Wesleyan (God's Missionary) services and I feel so "at home" there so no sure what's going on there. I even sit there and cry sometimes because I feel so at home... if I had a choice to convert totally, most times I'd go with Amish or Mennonite in a heartbeat.

    Anyhow, before I drift any further, I have seen some inflammatory statements in this thread (not by you, Chrissy) dripping with arrogance that have me sitting on my hands and I may have to gorilla-glue my lips shut... or maybe I'll respond sometime, but I'll say that it's not very Christian-like to do that. I think it's mostly "new Christians" who do that, think they know it all, make statements that are digs when they're *supposed* to be letting others see Christ in them through how they live, what they say, how they are living their life, not cramming their own doctrine down someone elses throats. How I dislike that!

    Protestant, Catholic, Jewish... it doesn't matter! Live a good life that you consider one that is pleasing to God! Follow the words of the Bible... I guess my main battle cry is that the people who are trying to cram their own dogma down your throat... well now, they just may be wrong, eh?
     
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  3. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Actually, I did. I think your problem is that you viewed my statement as a reproach for something you might have said when it wasn't that at all. I didn't address it to you or to anyone in particular, but to Christians in general, and to the topic of this thread. I had no intention of defending against something that I didn't say.

    I'm not very good at Reader's Digest answers, I'm afraid.
     
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  4. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Well see here's where I have an issue... "the Truth according to Babs Hunt's interpretation" may have some differences from the Mari's Truth or Chrissy's Truth or Bobby's Truth or Ken's Truth. We need to be careful when saying things like that... maybe even a blanket statement of "the Truth as I interpret it" may take some of the sting off... or maybe not, but it's bothersome to me, and kind of inflammatory when everyone's "Truth" even if all parties read the same Bible version, can and do have differing interpretations. I really don't like bopping others over the head to see things MY way when we're praying to the same God. /soapbox mode off
     
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  5. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Well Ken...here's my problem with that answer above. My post to you asked you a simple question that had nothing to do with the answer you posted. And yes you did address it to me...since it was a direct response to my direct question to you. But you not only said it to me...you said it to all true Christians. If we are afraid or threatened by secularism...or what is happening in the world when Jesus told us what to expect...then we might as well tell Jesus that we changed our minds about serving Him as He had asked us too.
    You're not very good at admitting when you are wrong either Ken.
     
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  6. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Ken, I'm private in my beliefs because if I started preaching the catholic view it would not be accepted very well by other faiths. Everybody believes there religion is right. I'm not going to turn you into a Catholic if I start sharing on here.

    I can say a few Hail Mary's for you and Babs, how would you feel about that?
     
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  7. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    If, as Christians, the most important thing that separates us from the rest of the world is politics or culture, then we will view everyone around us our enemies, and to view ourselves as morally superior.

    However, I wouldn't believe what I believe if I didn't think that it was right. Asking me to believe that every faith and every religion is equal and right is asking me to abandon my faith, and that is something that I will not do.

    A Christianity that is entirely devoid of friction in the culture is a Christianity that has already died. A Christian who is so afraid of being offensive that he absorbs the ambient culture eventually becomes indistinguishable from it, to the effect that there is no point to any of it. A Christian who keeps his beliefs hidden away is one who may as well throw his beliefs into the trash can, for they are dead.
     
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  8. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Many people who aren't Christians do not understand or recognize a Christian's confident assurance in their faith and often misconceive this confident assurance as the Christian "viewing" theirselves as morally superior but that would be a misconception.
     
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  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    In reference to my post that begins with…

    “There was a time in America when joining a Christian church was something that people did if they wanted to hold a social position in the community and, while that is still true in some parts of the country, it is becoming less true every year.”

    That post was not directed at you, but at Christians in general and to the subject of this thread, which seems to get lost continuously. I didn't address it to you, but you seem to be insisting on taking it personally.

    In response to this post, you asked me what I meant by “adapt our approach accordingly.”

    I then gave a lengthy reply to you in which I told you what I meant by that. Without writing a book, I don’t know what else I could say.

    I have no idea what you’re angry about so I don’t know how to respond accordingly. You seem to be insisting that I address some slight toward you that I never intended, and so cannot answer to.

    That was my attempt to answer your question about my previous post, in which you seemed to think I was reproaching you. You asked me what I meant, so I told you what I meant. I don't know what else I can say.
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Everyone is lining up to see who can be the most offended today, it seems.

    I quoted the topic of the thread as a hint that the discussion had gone off-topic. When that didn't work, I posted a longer post that addressed the topic of the thread. @Babs Hunt demanded that I explain myself, although I thought that I was being clear enough. I tried, but that apparently wasn't good enough, so I am going to come back when everyone has graduated from junior high school and is ready to have an adult conversation.
     
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  11. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Very Well-Known Member
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    I am also in agreement with @Chrissy Page , and our @Mari North has stated most of what I also believe perfectly about this point, as far as Christians trying to impose our beliefs on other people.
    Just as @Babs Hunt pointed out in the food thread, when her parents tried to force her to eat peas (knowing that peas and liver are wonderful healthy foods), she only ended up hating peas and liver worse, and has not even wanted to try and change that for the whole rest of her life, even though she totally agrees that they are healthy to eat.
    We just can't shove and drag people into heaven, any more than we can convince them to like any food by forcing them to eat it.
    It usually has the opposite effect.
    To me, sharing is mostly about how I live my life and treat other people. If they see a spark of happiness in my life and want some of that for themself, then we share with them how to ask God into their hearts. Only when someone does that, and makes a decision to follow Jesus and love his ways, will they be on the path to heaven.
    As far as which religion is the right one, I think that the denomination is not the part that matters, As Chrissy said, it is what is in our hearts that matters to God, not which church label we wear.
     
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  12. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Well the only thing that offends me personally @Ken Anderson is that today you handed satan the arrows of offense for him to shoot.
     
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  13. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I'm not offended. I'm just saying my views are different than yours and I accept that they are but what offends me is when someone says there's is the only true one. This was in reply to Ken.

    A few posts got in between.

    When there is only one accepted view and one goal, that is communism. The religion of choice in communism was atheism but it could have been anyone really, but all had to believe the same.

    People in Hungary weren't allowed to go to church in the beginning of communism.
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Yes, everything was going swimmingly until then.
     
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  15. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Yes, yes, yes! You got it, @Yvonne Smith ! "My way or the highway" has never worked and never will work. It really is what's in our heart, yes. I truly can't see God slamming the door to heaven closed and saying "Ooops, sorry, I know you believed in me and my Son, but... well, you were Baptist and not Methodist, so sorry, Charlie, but hit the road."

    Newer Christians seem to have a way of "witnessing" that we longer-time Christians see as very wrong and counterproductive... maybe someday they'll realize, but for the time being, I honestly believe that they are doing exactly the opposite of what their good intentions think they're doing.
     
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  16. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I accept that, and I am pretty sure that I have never indicated that I believed that only Anabaptists were going to heaven. There are many views but only one truth. We decide which that is by faith that is based on the evidence. Obviously, not everyone is going to be right but there's no reason to hate someone for being wrong.
     
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  17. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Not I! Not worth it. :rolleyes: Ooops, hope that wasn't an invitation for anyone to try harder... oh well, have at me!
     
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  18. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    Or maybe the discord being sown when others are trying to state their own beliefs, and the [what some would perceive as arrogance] is actually the arrows being handed to Beelzebub? What think, @Babs Hunt ?
     
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  19. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    image.jpg I don't hate anybody really, Ken. And to lighten the mood, this is what happened to my spinach low carb tortilla that I was going to eat for breakfast but instead got involved in this thread.
     
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  20. Mari North

    Mari North Very Well-Known Member
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    :D:D Frisbee game at Chrissy's house! I'll bring the cake and potato salad. That thing's not gonna knock someone out, is it, @Chrissy Page ? Looks wicked!
     
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  21. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Lol, the funny thing is, I have about 7 smoke alarms in my house but none in the kitchen or even near the kitchen.

    That was my special low carb spinach tortilla that I've only seen by my daughter's house...it was special! Now I have one less. I scratched the whole tortilla idea and had just scrambled eggs.
     
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  22. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    That was a good read Ken, and a great reminder for me when I am freaking out about politics, or the way the world is going. I know I'll hear over and over that a person will call themselves a christian, but they relate it not to "following Christ" but as being a "nice, moral person". What it comes down to for me is, am I going to not just read the bible, go to church, claim to be a christian, or am I going to pray for the strength to be more Christ-like.

    I mentioned earlier about morals, for me, I see two moral standards. One is man-made ideas of morality (whatever you think is moral and ok, is) and the other is God-made morality. Of course everyone can argue what the bible says, and all the translations etc., but again, that also comes down to "faith" in trusting that just because I don't understand something, doesn't mean it isn't still God's Word. Also, I remember before I was saved, I didn't ever really think about the spiritual, side of life. To me, and what I still struggle to do is, line up the spiritual, emotional, mental and physical part of me so they are in sync. For example, I can "feel" very close to God, and then think, feel, or physically do something that is against my own, christian teachings.
     
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  23. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    I am personally offended that you @Ken Anderson will not allow me to put about 10 likes on your post.

    Let's see, how can I really be offended? ummmm....nope, can't think of anything except stinky socks. That really gets me! How can anyone in a free country wear stinky socks when they only cost about a buck a pair?
    Cleanliness is next to Godliness they say.

    Maybe that's part of the conspiracy! When we get so jaded as to not be able to smell when something absolutely stinks and we no longer avoid even the strongest of smell tests it's a bad day in the U.S.A.
    Uh...ya'll gotta think about that one. Break time!
    That's worthy of another 10 likes Amigo! You seem to be batting a thousand with a couple of us at least!
    I really do not understand how your post can be misunderstood either but there are those who would be offended if we did not put sprinkles on an ice cream cone.
     
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  24. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Thank you. Christians today are being sold the lie that faith is something that should be kept to themselves, and that Christians should always be very careful not to say anything to offend someone of another faith, when this contradicts what we are told to do by Jesus, and is the opposite of what the members of the Early Church did.

    Certainly, we should try our best not to unnecessarily offend someone, but the facts are that it's impossible to direct someone to the right path without mentioning that the path they are on is the wrong one, and that is something that people are likely to find offensive.

    Nearly everyone we read about in the Early Church not only offended people with the gospel message, but they so sharply offended them that they were put to death for sharing their faith.
     
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  25. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Yesterday, for almost the entire day, the Holy Spirit gave me the privilege of serving God by planting seeds of His Truth and His Message of salvation through Jesus Christ alone. @Chrissy Page opened the door for the planting of those seeds and I did not push anything on her...I shared as she allowed me to do this. As long as she kept coming back for more of those seeds, I gave them to her. At no time did she ask me to stop sharing and everytime she came back she asked another question...and I answered those questions not with my truth but with God's Truth as written in His Word, the Bible. As a child of God I do belief what God says is true, but I did not make this Truth, God did.

    God is my Father, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, and when I surrendered my life to them I became their maidservant and I am obedient to what they ask of me. I am obedient to this not because I am forced to...but out of love. Love for God because He loved me enough to make a Way for me to become His child, and love for Jesus Christ because He was willing to become that Way and lay down His life for me so His shed blood could redeem me from all my sins (and there were many). They didn't do this just for me, they offer this same free gift of becoming God's child and eternal salvation to the whole world. And they offer it to the whole world because of Love too.

    I did not know that I was going to have the privilege of planting seeds for God and Jesus yesterday but when the Holy Spirit called me to do so...I was happy to obey this. As a child of God and servant of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ my #1 job on this earth is serving them and sharing with others God's Biblical Truth and the Message of salvation through Christ alone. So being called to plant those seeds yesterday was not just a privilege, but a blessing also.

    Today, satan tried to take those seeds that were planted and scatter them to the four winds and he almost succeeded in doing this and would have if I had let him continue to deceive me in believing he had the power to do this. He did succeed in maiming a few people, including me with arrows of offense...but that is all he accomplished and right now in the name of Jesus those arrows of offense are being turned around and aimed right back in his direction and they will maim him the same way they maimed some of us. Satan is our enemy here, we are not each others' enemies even though satan would like to convince us otherwise. When Jesus died on the Cross He defeated satan and when He comes back to earth, He will destroy him completely. Until Jesus does this we all are going to experience some games satan is going to play with us to try to divide us, destroy us, and even kill us. He will succeed sometimes...but not this time. His lies are exposed and he has failed here to make God's Truth a lie and he will not be successful in dividing God's children either. And he will not stop me from obeying God and serving Jesus Christ.

    I have never forced God's Truth on anyone here on this Forum, but I have shared my faith and belief in God's Truth and I will continue to do so. No one has been forced to open a tread of mine...or even post a reply to anything I have said either. And yet, if you did open my treads or reply...I have never made fun of what you believe or said you can't believe that. I have said a couple of times that I don't understand how some reach their beliefs, but then it is obvious, especially from things said today, that many of you don't understand how I can believe what I do either.

    I am not going to stop being who I am called to be as a servant of the Lord and child of God. And I am also not going to leave this Forum because some of you don't like that I share my faith and God's Truth. This is my Forum as much as it is yours and if you don't want to hear what I have to say...then you certainly don't have to read it as that is your choice to make in this. @Ken Anderson
     
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