Is It Possible To Be Christian And Pro-choice At The Same Time?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Babs Hunt, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Ina I. Wonder

    Ina I. Wonder Very Well-Known Member
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    For many this is a religious dilemma, and for some it is a moral issue. The two are not necessarily the same.

    I know many Christians, and there are many opinions amongst them concerning abortion. Christianity is not the only religion that deals with this very question.

    Many people are not religious, but they still have morals. This tells me morals come from within each of us.

    I was taught that no matter what others might say, that I should always hear what my Creator was telling me. That each of us can speak directly to The Creator within ourselves. As long as I listen to my Creator, I find whatever the issue is, there is always a clear answer.

    At the age of 13, 11 months after I was married, I was told by my doctor that I was pregnant, and that I should not have the child. He said my health was at risk, and he adviced that I abort the pregnancy as early as possible. My husband was all for that. He was in his mid 40's, and didn't want 'more' children. I was 13, and I didn't want a baby either. But the voice of my Creator said this was wrong.

    My first pregnancy was only 8 months, and at 15, the same thing happened, and that child was born after only 6&1/2 months. The doctors said I was lucky and should not have anymore children. I had no more children.

    So for me it was a moral issue. My Creator told me that no matter how much I didn't want to have children, it would be wrong to "kill" my children.

    So although both of my sons are gone now, they were my greatest treasures.

    Not all morals come from religion.
     
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I wanted both my children, abortion was never an issue, it wasn't because of religion or even morals that contributed to that decision. After I decided a girl and a boy was all I wanted, I had my tubes tied at 27. It was done because I had ABO incompatibility with my son. His bilirubin was too high at birth but they got it down in the hospital and he was ready to come home with me. The issue was I was type O and my son got his fathers blood type B and my body was producing antibodies against his blood...or something like that.

    The dr said any pregnancy after would be risky...stillbirths, etc....so, since I really didn't want more children anyway
    It was an easy decision. I knew I could devote lots of time to raising only 2 children and 5 years apart at that.

    And...it all worked out wonderfully in the end.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  3. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    Ina: I agree with most of what you said in your post, but not the part that I bolded. While I've known many people over the decades who either follow other religions or none at all and have led highly moral lives, I don't believe genuine morals can come from within a person- if it didn't come from their religions, it came from their families or similar solid sources.

    As a generally-accepted definition is 'the standards of right/wrong,' I think the approach that it comes from each person reduces it to personal choice, which is much different.
     
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  4. Ina I. Wonder

    Ina I. Wonder Very Well-Known Member
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    @Janice Martin , I can not say you are wrong. All I can go by are my own experiences. I was raised by selfish parents, and foster parents. They were physically and emotionally abusive to me, and I was married/sold off at 13. So I didn't recieve any form of good religious, family, or solid sources to form my morals by.

    At the age of six, I truly believed I was about to die, but a voice inside told me to hold on. I spent a week in the hospital, but I lived. Other times I've had to makes life choices, and I would get so confused, until I would quiet myself and listen for the voice within me. No one taught me how to do this.

    Many times I didn't like the answer I would find, but I've never regretted following that voice.

    I taught myself how to listen past what I might want. Then I was lucky to meet my Native American grandmother, and with her guidance I learned to believe in, and get a better understanding of The Creator.

    In my 20's I read many religions, but this only caused me confusion. I've only felt I was doing right when I followed that voice, and I believe it to be The Creator.
     
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  5. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    I have experienced this too Ina - I truly believe when a child is alone emotionally, there is that voice that comforts them
    it had a huge impact on my life and was a big help to me getting through it all
     
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  6. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    @Yvonne Smith - thank you for post 18, summed everything up perfectly :)
     
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  7. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    The topic question was: "Is it possible to be Christian and pro-choice at the same time?"

    Regardless of what anyone else has said to the contrary...the answer is a resounding "No, it is not!" Christians understand what is right and what is wrong from what God has to say about this in the Bible and God's Word says murder is wrong. Abortion is the murdering of an unborn child and for a Christian woman to murder her child would be going against what God has told her is wrong. For a Christian woman to believe it is alright to do this would also be going against God's Truth and would be disobedience.

    God's Word also says that all of us (Christians and non-Christians) know His Truth for it is written in our hearts...His Word also says that although all of us know it...many choose to do what they want anyway. That is the way of the World...but for a Christian it cannot be their way.




     
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  8. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    I think 'anyone' with common sense understands what is right from wrong
     
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  9. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Not if one thinks it's okay to murder their baby Patsy.
     
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  10. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    Plenty of Christians have committed murder over time Babs
    It all comes down to common sense and morals in the end
     
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  11. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    For me as a Christian it all comes down to what my Creator and Father God says Patsy. I'm sorry if you can't understand that. But God's Truth about right and wrong is the beginning and end for me as a Christian. That's how it is and how it will always be.
     
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  12. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    If you are trying to get people turned off to be a Christian, @Babs Hunt, it's working.

    Like I said before, according to you I'm not a Christian, and I guess I'm not.

    What I believe works for me just like what you believe works for you.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  13. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    If you are turned off by me speaking God's Truth as His child and a Christian...then that's your problem Chrissy, not mine. And I'm not the one calling you anything, you have done that.

    I am going to speak God's Truth because I am His daughter and His Truth is my Truth. None of you have to agree with me but I'm not going to just let y'all try to twist that Truth to suit what y'all want it to be either.
     
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  14. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    As good people Babs, it irks a bit to be told we're otherwise if we don't follow the Bible to the letter
    Which is absolute nonsense
     
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  15. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    You can speak all you want about your truth, Babs. I don't have to twist my truth either because it's what I believe.


    I don't have a problem, @Babs Hunt with what you want to post....just didn't understand where you where going.

    Do you want only people that agree with you to reply? Then I won't be replying anymore. Everybody believes their own truth to be true so it's really pointless to argue.

    Also, you did call me non Christian since I don't believe exactly as you do.
     
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  16. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Very Well-Known Member
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    It appears that you started this topic for discussion, @Babs Hunt , and now are telling everyone who has given their opinion about this topic that because we don't look at something exactly the same way as YOU see it, then we are wrong for even voicing an opinion. If you didn't want people to be able to discuss the topic, why on earth did you start the thread ?
    It is up to God to speak to a person's heart and show them whether something is right or wrong for them to be doing, and the Bible tells us that God's word is written in our hearts. Your telling people here (wonderful, kind and caring people) that they are wrong, or even that they are not Christians, because they gave an opinion, is only going to drive people away from ever wanting to become a Christian.
    You should be able to see this from the responses that you get every time you do this in one of your religious threads. It is no discussion at all when someone opens a thread just to say that no other opinions are allowed. We all have opinions, and when a thread asks a question, any answer is as acceptable to that thread as any other.
    We have NO right to walk over someone else's feelings just because we hold a different opinion that someone else in the forum believes. As a Christian, we should not even be wanting to push other people away from believing in God, we should be showing that love that God shows us, to other people regardless of their belief.
    It is accepting Jesus/God into our hearts that changes us inside, and makes us a true Christian. Like you always say, it is "relationship" that is what is important. Berating a person for their beliefs has never saved anyone.
     
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  17. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Well said, @Yvonne Smith and this is the right way to attract people to Christianity in my opinion.
     
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  18. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Discuss away! :) I've said what I wanted to say and honestly the only thing that matters to me is standing up for God's Truth on the matter of abortion. I really don't care if you like how I speak His Truth or not because frankly no matter how I spoke it....those that don't want to hear it...are going to have a problem with it any way it is said.

    There's another truth here....and it's the fact that many of you just don't even want God's name or His Truth spoken here but as a Christian when I have something to say....I have just as much right to say it as y'all do, whether y'all like the way I say it or not.
     
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  19. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Babs, I honestly don't care what you believe and I don't want to change what you believe either...post all you want but I just don't understand if you want replies that are different then yours.

    Maybe when you make a post like this, also add...don't reply if you believe differently.
     
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  20. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Very Well-Known Member
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    It is one thing to express one's views, opinions, or beliefs about Christianity (or any other subject); but it is another thing entirely to berate and insult the other people on the forum for also expressing their beliefs and thoughts.
    To tell another person that they are going to hell is not our business, only God makes that decision. His command to us was to love other people, and that is (to my mind) what is important.
    Jesus rescued the lost sheep, he didn't push it off the cliff......

    No one here has objected to your saying what you want to say, @Babs Hunt . Say what you want to say; but do not bash other people for what they say. Personal attacks are not the right way to do this.
     
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  21. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    I have been holding my tongue (or fingers) for quite some time in order to make better sense of things and I have finally come up with one question, to which you may be the judge.

    To say one thing is wrong but not have a solution to that wrong is not very Biblical. The Bible is pretty much always clear cut and makes it our responsibility to react correctly according to scripture.
    Now, if we establish that abortion in all instances is Biblically wrong then what would you have happen to the perpetrators of it?
    The Noaic covenant (Gen. 9:6) calls for, in simple terms, blood for blood. Uh, that's death to the mother in this case and probably the person helping with the abortion.
    In the Mosaic covenant (the law) as prescribed by say, Ex. 21:22-23 there is an actual accounting to be had for those people who would kill an unborn child. Although verse 22 is unclear as to what the "mischief" is I can suggest that charging the mother or father for the abortion could be called mischief which would lead us to verse 23 whereby someone has to die.
    The mother, wanting the abortion is one culprit and the one doing the abortion is another entity so obviously both should have to die.

    Since we already know that capitol punishment does very little to deter murder in all other realms then what again would you suggest, using Christian parallels, should happen to those accomplices and mother for an abortion?
     
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  22. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I was going to stay out of this, and pretty much will except for this one comment. One problem with determining whether someone can be a Christian and still be in favor of abortion is that we don't all define the terms in the same way. @Babs Hunt actually covered that area, pretty much, in that she defined her terms near the beginning of the thread. You may not agree with her definition of what a Christian is, but it does give the basis upon which her opinions are formed.

    In the end, God will decide who is and who is not a Christian, but we do need to have a working idea of what it means to be a Christian if we intend to live as one. We may disagree on the definitions and that's all right. God will let you know if you're wrong later.

    Some people have a very loose working definition of what it means to be a Christian. For some, I fear their definitions of the term are so loose that they will be told, when it is too late, "I never knew you."

    But that's not for me to say.

    I believe that abortion is sin. True, there are a lot of sins and Christians sin all the time. We can be forgiven for our sins.

    Can we be so easily forgiven if we decided that our own ethical standards are more accurate than God's, that a particular sin is not really a sin, or that it might be a sin but we're going to encourage it anyhow? I don't know, but I wouldn't want to take that chance.

    Taking the Lord's name in vain is also a sin, yet I do that once in a while. I don't plan to do so in advance, but it comes out once in a while. I pray that God can forgive me for that, and I think that maybe He will.

    But would He forgive me if I decided that, screw it, a word is a word and I'll use whatever words I want. Who is He to tell me what kind of language I can use when I hit my thumb with a hammer? Again, I don't know for sure, but I think it's fair to say that it's less likely that He would forgive a conscious decision on my part to defy Him, now and in the future. I am thinking, also, that it would be even worse if I went around encouraging others to ignore God's request that we not use His name in vain because, you know, it makes me feel a lot better to know that I'm not the only one doing it.

    How about if I did ask Christ to come into my heart but I hadn't really gotten around to reading the whole Bible, or if I attended a church where the church leaders took the Lord's name in vain too, and I honestly didn't know that this was a sin -- would that still be a sin? Well yeah, I'm sure it would still be a sin but I'm not so sure that I would be held eternally responsible for violating a law that I didn't know about. Is ignorance of the law an excuse in God's mind? I hope so.

    So I believe that abortion is a sin. It is also a sin to murder another adult, but we know that God can forgive a person for murder. Again though, will He forgive someone who decides that he knows better than God, and that there isn't really anything wrong with killing someone as long as the victim is really annoying?

    I don't know. I am not God, but I do know that I wouldn't want to take my chances on that.
     
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  23. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    What you wrote is all through your eyes and beliefs. My beliefs are different. Nobody knows who is right or wrong.

    I'm not afraid of dying wether there is a heaven or not. I believe if there is, I will be there. And I believe this just as much as you or Babs believe otherwise. There are many beliefs and non beliefs in this world.

    Although I don't agree with Babs on religion, I do like her as she loves her children and grandchildren just as I love mine. I should probably stay away from the abortion posts in general.


    One last thought before I leave this post for good....

    I didn't live my life the way I did with the thought or hope that I would go to heaven...it never crosses my mind.

    I just always felt that it was the right way to live.
     
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  24. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    I hope this won't cause the thread to go off-topic, but figure your statements above make this as good a place as any to address this:
    Although I never even heard of this til recent years, some people believe being a Christian rides on getting/being 'saved.'
    Virtually everybody else, though, is in tune with what one of my high school teachers said: 'following the ways and teachings of Jesus Christ.'
     
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  25. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    @Ken Anderson - I have regrets in my life and a couple I 'cannot' forgive myself for
    On a daily basis I torture myself with thoughts of it.
    That is a life sentence for something I did wrong. I am sure a lot of people feel this way too
    I'm a believer but I'm not religious but I do try to live a good and decent life
    But to tell me that God would not forgive me, does not ring true, because he would know how I
    have stressed and suffered emotionally, therefore I regret very much and He should understand that
    and be forgiving
     
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