Is It Possible To Be Christian And Pro-choice At The Same Time?

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Babs Hunt, Jan 25, 2017.

  1. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Is it possible to be Christian and pro-choice at the same time?
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    Question: "Is it possible to be Christian and pro-choice at the same time?"

    Answer:
    Abortion has been a hotly debated topic in American culture for the past forty years. Proponents on both sides wave statistics and viewpoints that many sincerely believe to be the only right way. For the sake of clarity, let's define the terms “pro-choice” and “pro-life.” For the purposes of this article, “pro-choice” will be defined as “the belief that a woman should have the legal right to abort her unborn child at any point in the pregnancy.” Pro-choice advocates believe abortion is a personal decision and should not be limited by the government or anyone else. “Pro-life” will be defined as “the belief that every human life is sacred and no one, including the mother, has the right to end an innocent life.” Pro-life advocates hold the view that life from the moment of conception should be protected.

    So, should a Christian be pro-choice or pro-life? A Christian, according to the Bible, is someone who has accepted God's offer of forgiveness through Jesus' death and resurrection. Salvation is a gift of God through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ (John 3:16-18; Ephesians 2:8-9; Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9). What we believe about other things is a matter of growth, not of salvation. However, 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." When we give our lives to Christ, He begins to change us: our way of thinking and our way of behaving (see Isaiah 55:7). Our bodies become the temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19). Our minds are renewed through the truth of God's Word (Romans 12:1-2). Our attitudes, perspectives, and behaviors gradually change to be more like those of Christ (Romans 8:29; Galatians 5:22).

    This transformation doesn't happen overnight. Many Christians are still what the apostle Paul called "carnal" (1 Corinthians 3:1-3; Romans 8:6). Carnal Christians trust in Jesus for salvation, but they still think, act, and react like the world. Often, they are new to the faith or simply have not allowed the Holy Spirit free access to every area of their hearts. They are trying to live the Christian life in their own strength, while still being heavily influenced by the world's way of thinking. The carnal mind has not been fully renewed by the Word of God and still seeks compromise with the world (James 4:4). Carnal Christians allow the persuasive viewpoints of the ungodly to sway their opinions on many things, including abortion. Spiritual growth requires us to shed our old ways of thinking as we become more like Christ. We begin to see things the way God does, and the closer to Him we become, the less we agree with the world's system (Psalm 1:1-2). If a person continually refuses to allow the Word of God to transform his thinking, chances are great that he is not really a Christian (Romans 8:14).

    Pro-choice advocates state that the Bible does not address abortion, so the decision should be the individual’s. While it is true that the term "abortion" does not appear in the Bible, the principles about the value of life are there. In Exodus 21:22-23, God wrote into His Law protection for the unborn. If a pregnant woman was injured, causing her to lose her child, then the one who caused the injury was to be executed: "a life for a life." The phrase "life for a life" says a lot. God considers the life of the unborn just as valuable as that of a grown man.

    God said to Jeremiah, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you" (Jeremiah 1:5). It was God who created him for a specific purpose. Psalm 139:13-16 gives us the clearest picture of God's viewpoint on the unborn. David writes, "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. . . . My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret. . . .Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them."

    The Bible is clear that all human life is created by God for His purpose and His pleasure (Colossians 1:16), and a Christian who truly wants to know the heart of God must align his or her viewpoint with God's. When we start justifying evil according to our understanding, we dilute the truth of God's Word. When we rename adultery an "affair," homosexuality an "alternative lifestyle," and murder of the unborn a "choice," we are headed for serious trouble. We cannot redefine what it means to follow Christ. Jesus said we must first "deny ourselves" (Matthew 16:24; Luke 9:23). Part of denying ourselves is letting go of comfortable lies the world has fed us. We have to let go of our own understanding and allow God to change us (Proverbs 3:5-6).

    Some pro-choice advocates argue that they are not pro-abortion. They say they hate abortion, but support a woman's right to choose. This makes as much sense as saying that you personally hate rape, but support a man's right to commit it. The rhetoric sounds nice—the mention of “choice” makes it more appealing—but underneath is a direct conflict with God's viewpoint in Scripture.

    Pro-choice advocates often state that their position is "compassionate" and that pro-lifers don't care about the woman or her child. This argument is a red herring. Whether pro-lifers “care” or not is irrelevant, just as it is irrelevant whether those opposed to robbery “care” about the banks being robbed. Robbery is against God's moral law. So is abortion. And that’s the issue.

    The Bible is clear: since God is the Creator of human life, only He can determine who lives or dies. And every person who claims the name of Christ has the obligation to make certain his or her views line up with His Word. Is it possible for a born-again Christian to be pro-choice? Yes. Is it likely that such a person will remain pro-choice? Not if he or she is allowing God’s Word to transform and renew his or her mind (Romans 12:2).Recommended Resource: The Case for Life: Equipping Christians to Engage the Culture by Scott Klusendorf

    Related Topics:

    What does the Bible say about abortion?

    How can a woman experience healing and recovery after an abortion?

    Does the Bible teach that life begins at conception?

    Is abortion murder?

    Do the souls of aborted babies go to heaven?


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    Is it possible to be Christian and pro-choice at the same time?
     
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  2. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    And yet we kill innocent babies in war as collateral damage, we have the death penality, etc.

    I'm not stating my views on war or the death penalty just giving an example.
     
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  3. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Veteran Member
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    I don't see that it matters whether you're a Christian or not !
    Belief is belief - I used to be against abortion until I saw many examples of why it should be allowed
    in certain circumstances. Not 'only' Christians have morals - not 'all' Christians have morals
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  4. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    But then that opinion would be for another thread topic.
     
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  5. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I was just replying to something you quoted in this topic. :)

    That's okay, I'm done with it anyway. All that matters is how I feel and those views I'll keep to myself.
     
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  6. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    For me it has to do with when life begins in the womb. When does the baby become a living, human being. At that point, for me personally, it is taking a human life. I do believe there are reasons an abortion has to happen, one is of course, if the fetus had died. Which brings another thought to mind which is in order for the fetus to die, it had to be alive.

    Lastnight I watched a doc on a man arrested for aborting babies that were allowed to be aborted up to 24 months in that State. Although he went way beyond, and was actually having to murder babies that were several months along, and 9 months was also true of some. He continues to claim his innocence, and that he was helping poor women. He was also charged with murder of "I think" she was 23 ish.

    I will try and get his name right and google it:

    here's the link to the book, but there are also plenty of free articles when I googled. This happened in 2011 but I first heard about it lastnight on FNC.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EEQ9D0I/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
     
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  7. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    But it does matter to a true Christian Patsy. For if Christians have chosen God for their Father, and Jesus for their Savior, they have also chosen the Bible as God's Word and Truth for what they believe and how they live their lives. Christians are not perfect, but they do strive to live as God's Word tells them to live. And what He says is right and wrong in the Bible is the moral compass that Christians strive to live by. Christians cannot just change God's Truth like the World does because it doesn't suit them, etc. The only Truth that can be truth for Christians is God's Word on something.
     
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  8. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Guess I won't be checking "Christian" anymore then on any forms I fill out...and that's okay too. I have my own personal beliefs and I'm good with them.
     
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  9. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Life begins for a woman the moment that pregnancy stick or test says you are pregnant. For God life begins the moment the baby was conceived.
     
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  10. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    I guess we'll end up with a vote on roe v wade one day, I hope, as I would vote against "abortions on demand". I believe most of the abortions performed are killing human beings, and that there are few comparatively speaking, for health reasons, or the fetus dying. Some things just aren't allowed to be posted, or people aren't willing to show the gruesome details, such as the holocaust of Hitler's doing.

    Education is important, sooooo important, but it can only enlighten if a person is willing to see the evidence. Sadly, some go with what their head tells them instead of doing the research, being objective as well, read both sides.

    I'm glad some are at least willing to discuss it and not just be indifferent to the "problem":( which is putting it very mildly.
     
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  11. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    I think science has proved this, and some scientists, I'm sure, argue that it's not true. It seems simple for me that when an egg is fertilized by the sperm, the life begins, the embryo begins to grow. I don't know when the embryo actually has nerve development or "feeling". In The Silent Scream, that baby reacted to touch. I can't more highly recommend watching that film if you are going to be discussing this all. It's a brutal awakening for some, but if you have no knowledge of the procedure of abortion, and the life of the child, you are uninformed.
     
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  12. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    It would be a fool who would start a topic about something they know nothing about...unless the topic was one of something they wanted to learn about. ;)
     
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  13. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I agree, unless it's a question to learn about that very thing. I've done that a few times here.

    What I was talking more about is that people can sometimes jump on the soap-box on a thread without knowing enough or possibly anything about the topic. I've been in church most of my adult life, and was blessed enough to understand the bible. I don't know where you found something that says life begins at conception, but I have no reason not to believe you. I've read the bible and I believe two things I know for sure are that we were made, man, than woman, and we were to populate the Earth. I also know the commandments and the Sixth says "thou shall not kill".

    So if a true believer in Christ, and would "so" then follow Him as closely as a human is capable of, they would know that commandment. I do run into problems about war, and killing to protect your family etc. I'm sure there are more things we could go into, but I will try to stick just with your topic.

    I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but unless a person knows the bible, and believes it, they can't understand the question. On anything except their opinion on "what they think" christianity is. I realized I hadn't answered your question and so I will now, no, not in the sense that law was passed. Any woman that is pregnant, no matter what, she can have an abortion. When I see that, I see babies well into their lives. Children ARE living before they come out the womb, living on their own, no, but they are living.
     
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  14. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    At day 18 after the egg is fertilized the baby's heart starts beating.
     
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  15. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Christians should know what the Bible says about things. But even alot of Christians just let their Bibles gather dust these days. And many Christian churches aren't teaching much from the Bible anymore either. Yet with the internet you can just go online and type in the search engine what the Bible has to say on just about any subject...and many web pages will come up to show you.
     
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  16. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    True @Babs Hunt it's best as you know I'm sure, to read it in context. Everything in there is interwoven with other things in the bible to help us understand the Word. There's are real chance of misunderstanding if taken out of context.
     
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  17. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I think that's true about some alot of what is written in God's Word Denise. But there is also alot that God says that stands alone and means exactly what He said. :) It's people who try to make it mean something else most of the time so they can do things their way....instead of God's.

    And I can say this in all honesty...because at one time I tried to do this too.
     
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  18. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Very Well-Known Member
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    When abortions were not legalized, women still aborted their babies, and have done this since the beginning, using herbs, or whatever means that they had to stop an unwanted pregnancy. In more recent times, many women died from unlicensed doctors in secret abortion clinics that were neither safe nor sanitary.
    Sometimes women have carried babies that were the result of them being raped or molested, and I do not think that any woman should be forced to go through either of these things.
    I think that this is (my understanding) what @Patsy Faye is saying, and I agree with her completely. I think that each person has their morals and beliefs, and this is not respective of their religious beliefs, or lack of such.
    What I am against is having the abortion clinics that are leaving the baby grow until it is almost fully developed and then harvesting organs, and I don't think there is EVER any just reason for doing this.
    This IS actually killing babies, in my opinion.
    I also think that @Chrissy Cross has brought up an important distinction here, and that is that women (some of them are undoubtedly pregnant) and innocent babies and children are killed all of the time as part of wars (most of them our invasions of other countries), and I think that this is even worse than someone terminating a pregnancy when there is a reason for doing so. Yet, we never see protestors marching and carrying signs about that, and even most Christians never give it a second thought.
    The Bible is full of stories where the armies were told to destroy all women and children, and even sometimes the livestock, when they invaded a country.
     
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  19. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    That is the way the world has not only been with the bible, but what anybody says, or writes. I think some genuinely misunderstand, but yes, there are those that add to or take away from the true meaning. The bible says New International Version
    "The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit." (my blue highliting)

    This is an amazing part of the bible for me. I can also relate it to someone that maybe misunderstands a speech by someone, or just a conversation. If you truly KNOW the person that wrote it or spoke the words, you know exactly what they mean, because you know the person.

    Here's a good example, I have a close friend and we tease back and forth. I was carrying a big load of groceries from my truck and she asked me if I had the time. If I didn't understand, and know she was pullin a joke on me, I could think "is she blind"!! But I know her so I just got her back by saying up yours, and we both had a good laugh;)
     
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  20. Denise Happyfeet

    Denise Happyfeet Very Well-Known Member
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    I don't understand why the baby should pay for the crime with it's life.

    It again boils down to what is a life, and what is some sort of blob of protoplasm?
     
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  21. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I agree, and even though I consider myself pro choice I would like to see abortion restricted to the earliest a woman finds out. I would say 12 weeks at the latest. If I had to have an abortion I would want it done at 6 weeks, I'd have missed my period and would know by then if I was pregnant.

    I've never been for abortion as a means of birth control. Also, even if roe vs wade is ever overturned, women who want one will find a way. They did before and they will again.
     
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  22. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Yes, Yvonne women did still "murder" their babies before that "murdering" was legalized. But that doesn't mean it wasn't murder than or now. It will never be anything but murder no matter how you try to make it in to something else.

    There will never be a right reason for murdering the child growing in their womb.
     
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  23. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    We can argue this forever and women that want abortions will have them and women that don't...won't.

    Some of these unwanted babies will be murdered (as you call it) before they are born but how many unwanted babies are killed after they've known life?? Those are the ones that break my heart.

    The neglected ones and abused ones.

    And with that I'm out of here....abortion is not my issue, don't want one, don't need one and never had one.
     
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  24. Janice Martin

    Janice Martin Well-Known Member
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    I don't mean to veer your thread in a different direction, but isn't it only logical (on this topic and many others) that while there always were and will always be people who do wrong, MORE do it when they're told it's 'safe, legal, and acceptable'?
    I'm sure there were plenty of women with unplanned pregnancies before Roe v Wade who could have found a 'back alley butcher' but didn't, simply because it was not presented as 'safe, legal, and acceptable.'
     
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  25. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Very Well-Known Member
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    Well said, , and a great point, @Janice Martin . There have usually been other alternatives, like having the baby and adopting it out. That might not have been an option in other time periods when babies were often thrown out when they were born in some cultures (especially girl babies); but now there are places where unwed mothers can stay and have their baby and then put it out for adoption.
    Standing outside of an abortion clinic waving a protest sign is not likely to save the babies. Helping those teen girls to find a safe place to live and deliver the baby is a much better idea. Maybe if the teenage mothers had to spend nine months being pregnant they would think a little more before going right back out and getting pregnant again. As Chrissy said, abortion should not ever be used as a form of birth control.
    And it does seem like emphasis is put on the baby being born, and then the child living in neglect and abuse is often overlooked, (as @Chrissy Cross mentioned), even by Christian churches , who could be doing something to help the situation and not just complaining about it.
    Nothing is sadder than seeing those children who are abused and mistreated by their parents, when the parents should not have had children in the first place.
    Helping to see these babies placed in loving adoptive homes would be a great improvement over either having them aborted, or being raised by unloving parents.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017

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