Immigration Imponderables

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Frank Sanoica, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    Most of us agree with you Maggie but are to timid to talk like that. Go get them Maggie
     
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  2. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    But what about the children?
     
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  3. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I definitely think the Wall should be built, but I do not think it will stop immigrants from coming in...just slow them down some.

    This is a really hard subject for me to discuss because along with decent people who are coming in to have a better life for them and their families, I know that there are a lot of bad people coming in too. I think the answer doesn't really lie in building the wall but in making a better way for good families to come in legally and to weed out the bad ones and refuse them entrance.

    I don't think any other Country has the freedom and opportunity that America has and I can see why people want to come and have that same freedom and opportunity too. I don't agree with illegal entry...but I understand that desperation can make a person do whatever it takes to take care of their families.

    A wall will slow them down...but really the whole immigration system in place needs to be overhauled so that people know they have a chance to come in legally.
     
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  4. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    According to the latest hub-bub, the children need to be confined with their parents and the drug pushers and the sexual deviants. It is only fair. A couple of administrations back, they were criticized for imprisoning the children with their parents as that exposed the kids to all kinds of dangers, now, since it is Trump, they now MUST be held in adult cells with their parent...if their parents even came with them. Originally, the children were separated from the adults because a 15-year-old was gang-raped while being imprisoned with her parents in adult custody. How could parents protect children when there are gang members and perverts by the hundreds imprisoned with them?
     
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  5. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    What about the children should they be thrown in jail with the parents that did something illegal or should they be kept separate. Do we give these children to anyone who said that they are the parents when there is child trafficking is happening. So Shirley what do you think put them in jail with their parents or give them to child traffickers
     
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  6. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    I don't know. That's why I asked you.
     
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  7. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Veteran Member
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    It is a tough question is it not Shirley
     
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  8. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    The walls, doors, and locks on your house don't prevent people from coming in if they are determined to do so, but they help tremendously. Laws against murder don't prevent people from being murdered, yet we need laws against murder. A wall would slow the flow down to a point where it will be more manageable. There are no perfect answers to anything but that should never prevent us from seeking a better answer.

    No one, or very few people anyhow, are talking about stopping all immigration. Legal means of immigrating to the United States would continue.
     
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  9. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Greeter
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    I have been reading about the caravan (as they are calling it) of people coming here from Honduras. It sounds like they are actually being paid to come here, and my guess is that it has something to do with more illegal voting in our upcoming elections, since Hillary already said that they were bringing in more illegals to get registered to vote, so they can help win the elections.
    So, our president contacted the governments of both Honduras and Guatemala, and he told them that it this caravan is not stopped and turned back, America will stop giving both countries any financial aid.
    The last that I read is that they are getting the people stopped. From looking at the picture, it appears to me that the whole caravan is young adult men, so definitely not refugee families.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...GbIgT5EOH1SNTEj5I7JLcoBDCA-dy8KMLT6HB83rPXKdY
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    The last large caravan was recruited by an American anti-border group so I expect this is the same. As far as I know, we never really learned what happened with the last group so I am assuming they got in.
     
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  11. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Veteran Member
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    I'm all for a fence and I think burglary and stealing should be a crime. Someone took my cane out of my car the other night. Granted it was unlocked. I moved it back closer to the street because a tree was leaking sap. Very sticky stuff. I forgot to lock the car. Now the cane is gone. Last year my handicap sticker was lifted. Again I left the car unlocked. So a crime was committed by stealing my stuff. I committed a crime in this state by not locking my car. So here in Oklahoma we are all crooks. If my car was unlocked insurance will not cover anything taken.

    I think we should hire the Chinese to build the fence for us. After all, they built the Great Wall and it's still standing. We could use razor wire but a electrified fence could be short circuited with out harm to any one. A fence will slow slow don traffic. That's the best we can hope for unless we put troops or shooters or armed patrols along the border. It's a problem.
     
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  12. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    I believe we already have armed patrols here in Arizona.
    Frank
     
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  13. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Veteran Member
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    @Frank Sanoica, I think most are crossing in Arizona, A few come across in Texas but they come over to shop in those towns Ken used to live in. There's no work for them in New Mexico so I'm sure they don't want to cross the border there. So it looks like your patrols are mostly ineffective. Maybe we need to re-instate the draft for duty along the border. Serve one year along the border, one yeare in a TO&E Division and they could be drawn on in case of military conflicts or war. Much like a reserve unit. Three divisions should do it plus a helicopter battalion. I suppose we could start out by issuing rubber bullits, concission grenades. We could turn over the Big Bend to the military for overall head quarters wwith regimental command posts in Arizona and California. Hey, I forgot about drones. Give the military a battalion of drowns. What do you think?
     
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    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    When I was living in Texas, if I were to walk across the international bridge from Matamoros (Mexico) to Brownsville (Texas), there would be a constant stream of people coming across the border. Just as when I crossed into Mexico, the US border patrol would ask each person if they were a citizen of the United States and, if not, what their purpose for visiting the country was. Most Mexican citizens would say they were going to go shopping in Brownsville. I don't know what criteria they used, but most were allowed to cross into the United States, while some were taken into a room at the border area, and presumably questioned further or turned back.

    However, anyone could look over the side of the bridge and see a string of people wading across the Rio Grande River, crossing into Brownsville while avoiding the border check. No one ever seemed to impede their crossing.

    Of course, the real border check was a hundred miles north, and they did do some stringent searching there.

    However, if they chose to stay, these people were in the United States. If they knew someone in the safe zone of the Rio Grande Valley, they could wait for their opportunity to make it past the other border check. I know that a lot of the people involved in the drug trade were Mexican nationals, so that may have been a way for them to earn a living while they waited, and to save enough money to pay whoever they might need to pay.

    Most people in this country aren't aware, or may not have thought of the third-world diseases that are being brought into the United States by people who are crossing our borders illegally. There is a whole hospital in Harlingen devoted to tuberculosis and other infectious diseases, and drug-resistant diseases are common. After suffering a strangulated hernia, I caught a drug-resistant bacteria while being operated on at a border hospital.
     
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  15. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    The whole “caravan” debacle is kind of mind boggling.
    1. If the separate governments of the Hondurans and Guatemalans do somehow stop people from heading to the U.S. border, then the U.Nations might step in with sanctions concerning human rights.
    2. Mexico has a southern border which, by the words of their newest president is supposed to be closed to illegals wishing to cross but in truth, it obviously isn’t. New sanctions against Mexico perhaps? Not going to happen.
    3. When they reach the U.S. border, what are we going to do about it? We could line the border with troops from the 82nd Abn Div. but there’s certainly nothing they could do except stand their and take a bunch of abuse. They can’t harm the individuals who are trying to cross or that would cause a world wide stir. Water cannons, tear gas and other non-fatal elements can be used but they only last for so long until everyone groups up again and pushes forward.
    Even if some of the people in the caravan are armed, if everyone is peaceful then it’s business as usual and get out the paperwork, food, medical supplies and build another tent city.

    Bottom line is that until a physical deterrent such as a wall is built, there is nothing we can do to stop illegal mass migration into the U.S. on our southern border.
    A wall would merely act as a warning device which when breached, a person is acknowledging the probability of bodily harm via a very determined border patrol guard.
    And do note: Until those who propagate and promote these mass migrations with money and influence are sought out and prosecuted, the caravans will keep on forming and making their way to the U.S. border.
    No one can convince me that the CIA doesn’t know exactly who these players are and cannot take them out of the game permanently.
     
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