Ilegals Being Separated From Their Children And Its All Blamed On Trump

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Babs Hunt, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    As much as I love children and my heart goes out to each one of them that are being separated from their parents because of illegally entering America...I also hate the fact that Trump is getting all the blame for this...when it's something that has been happening all along...long before Trump became President.

    I certainly don't want children to be separated from their parents unless the parents are abusing their children, etc. But I don't want Trump blamed either when it's the laws that have to be changed so this doesn't happen anymore.
     
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  2. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    Babs, I believe it was done as a result of a law passed and signed during the Clinton Administration. There were more than twice as many children separated from their parents during 2014 (Obama Administration--25,000) as during the current "crisis" in 2018 (Trump Administration--12,000). Of those 12,000, 10,000 were sent to the border unaccompanied by their parents. I believe similar proportions were sent during the crisis years that nobody had a problem with during the latter Obama years. What do you do with unaccompanied minors who are separated from their parents BY their parents? The Clinton law (I believe passed in 1994, but not sure) mandated that children be separated from their parents if the parents violated Federal law. Guess what? Entering the country illegally is a violation of Federal law! The Trump Administration is simply enforcing a law that has been enforced inconsistently by past administrations. Would it be better to house the children and their parents alongside the MS 13 members and other adults? I agree with you. The media is trying to get the focus away from the failing "Russia investigation", the good job numbers, the rolling economy, and North Korea. It is another manufactured crisis.
     
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  3. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I don't know but it sounds like a big old mess to me and sad one. I don't know what the laws where before because I didn't pay attention, but now my question is...

    What is going to happen to the children?
    I also don't see all illegals as criminals and Gang members...yes, it's against the law but not the same in my eyes.

    It's the difference between a bad person losing their child and going to jail and just a person fleeing a country losing their child.

    Very sad in that case.

    Sometimes in the other case...where parents are drug addicts etc and lose their children it may be a good thing but that's not always true either...foster care doesn't have the best reputation.

    I know this won't be the popular opinion on here but I don't care.

    Although I came to this country legally I do have some compassion for the illegals who only want a better life and work very hard for it.

    Yes, not everyone is like that but I think it becomes obvious very quickly who the gang members and criminals are.

    Canada is alway saying how open they are in accepting refugees...maybe they should take some from Mexico and Central America.

    They don't though....:(

    Guess I'm just a bleeding heart conservative...Is there such a thing? :)
     
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  4. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Yes, I know it has been going on for years and they are just bringing it to the "front lines" to try to make Trump look bad again. But it's going to end up back firing in their faces because it can be proven that this has been going on during the terms of many past Presidents and they did nothing to end it then. Them bringing it up now just might begin the process of finally changing some laws in this area.

    Still we have to all realize that criminals, drug pushers, and terrorists will all use little children to get into America...and they will destroy those children in the process if that's what it takes. Trump is right to stand firm against these kinds of people...there are already to many of them here in America just waiting for a signal from whomever to cause destruction and death all over America. And our FBI, etc. has corruption going on so how can we even trust that they are keeping tabs on these enemies of ours that are already here...much less the ones trying to come in.
     
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  5. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    It's never really about the issues...you're worried it makes Trump look bad. Before someone would worry it made Obama look bad.

    That's the problem...everyone always taking their side and never doing what's right.

    @Babs Hunt ...how many Mexican children have blown up a building?
     
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  6. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Greeter
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    We have quite a few Mexican families living in the Huntsville area, some are probably illegal , and some probably are not. There is reallly no way to tell just by looking at someone , at least for the most part.
    I am impressed with the little families that I see here. The mothers are dressed nice, the little kids are dressed nice, clean clothes, and the parents do a good job of supervising them. A lot of the construction workers here are Mexican, and also many of the people who work in the food and beverage industry.
    Truthfully, most of the Hispanic people look better than the black people and the white people that we see living in this part of town. I have never seen a Hispanic person covered in ugly tattoos and piercings, and the men wear their pants up where pants are supposed to go, and not hanging down around their knees.
    Mexicans are not the ones that are out shooting guns and fighting in the middle of the street all weekend long, either.
    Even their music is much better that what is being boomed out of most of the car stereos that go down our street.
    I think that it would be good if these people were allowed the opportunity to become citizens, and I believe that they are an asset to this country.

    On the other hand, the ones that we see (on television) that are marching against American traditions and people, and who are militant Hispanics; I see no reason at all to let those people stay here and do nothing except cause trouble. Also, the ones who are arrested for crimes should be sent back to Mexico.
    We do not need that kind here either, and sometimes it would be nice if we could send some of the other ones (criminals and trouble-makers) back somewhere , too.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  7. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Chrissy, I am not worried about anyone trying to make Trump look bad. What I am saying is that this isn't something new that they can blame on Trump like they are trying to do. It's been going on and will continue until they change the laws other Presidents...not Trump put in place.

    There's no doubt in my mind that a terrorist would use a child in a heart beat if it would help him enter this Country, and even be evil enough to strap a bomb on a child and blow up that child and whatever his target is too.

    Trump can't make any changes with what has been going on for years by himself. Those who are putting the blame on him are often the very ones who need to work with him to make things better and change the laws the former Presidents put into effect.
     
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  8. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Well yes, a terrorist would strap,a bomb to a child...I don't dispute that...just don't think that our terrorism worries are from Mexico.

    I don't think there's any easy answer to this...

    Except start from scratch maybe...not who made what law when and whose fault is what. That's always our problem.

    Each side blaming the other...it's all about winning an election and not really solving the problem.
     
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  9. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I think that the good ones should be allowed that opportunity too...but first you have to find out who the good ones are. I also know there are many good Mexican people and families already here in America and a few of those were our neighbors when we lived in Jacksonville, FL. So I want the laws to change to allow good, hard working people to stay here and get their citizenship too. Our Government has to start working together with their President to do this...but they would rather act like a bunch of two year olds and blame our President instead of doing their jobs.

    We don't in my opinion need to impeach our President...but we sure do need to impeach or clean house of almost all of those officials we have elected to the Senate and House, etc. Unfortunately they are the ones who have passed laws for their own benefit and not the American people. Or anyone else that might want to become an American.
     
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  10. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Oh there's an easy answer in my opinion. Work with your President and change the laws towards immigrants so they won't have to come in illegally to work towards citizenship. Somebody made the laws that make it almost impossible to do this...now somebody needs to change these laws.

    And terrorists will come in from all over Chrissy. It's nothing for a terrorist to hop a plane to Mexico or already be there...and find a way to come in to the US. Trump is doing the best he can to protect our Country from terrorism and if that means a little inconvenience for those coming into our borders illegally...then so be it. Those children might have separation from their parents for a short while but they aren't being abused and even in the warehouse are probably living and eating better than they were in Mexico. We are not hearing the whole story...only what the biased News people want us to hear.
     
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  11. Gloria Mitchell

    Gloria Mitchell Very Well-Known Member
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    I blame all of them...past and POTUS and congress, etc etc. ... this has been gong on it seems forever. Instead of coming up with a doable plan, they want to sling
    blame and a dilly dally around. I do not know what the answer is, but there must be a better way to handle the whole situation.
    I started to rattle on, but will stop for now. :)
     
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  12. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    All news is biased...just depends what side you're on....at least I can see that.
     
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  13. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    :) I was enjoying your rattling Gloria and I so agree.
     
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  14. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I so agree with you on this. :)
     
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  15. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    I read that Mexican adults are using their kids to try and get into the U.S.. They pretty much know that there are those that will have a lot of compassion for the children and that's exactly what their parents are hoping for.

    They keep saying that they want to escape the gangs and drug lords of their country. Well, we have the same thing here...…..gangs and drug dealers. So, what are they escaping? Nothing. There is poverty where they come from and many of them settle in areas of poverty here in the U.S. I totally understand what Trump says about not letting the U.S. become an illegal immigrant camp.

    A Border Agent spoke on CNN this afternoon and basically made Brooke Baldwin LISTEN to what he had to say and everything he stated was absolute truth. Border Agents will have nothing to do with all of those "passion-feeling" people in the U.S.. "We have a job to do and we will do it, no matter what kind of backlash we get." he stated.
     
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  16. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Not like they have over there Cody...and poverty over here looks like middle class living compared to the poverty they are going through over there in most cases.

    I can't agree with them coming in illegally but I certainly understand why they are doing it and until we make a better way for them to come in legally they will continue to come in illegally. Most of them are good people who are willing to do the work most Americans don't want to do anymore so it's not like they are taking our high paying jobs from anyone. Of course John McCain did think they were making $50 an hour picking cabbages...and he said he would certainly take that job. That man has no concept of reality in my book.

    There is still room in America for good families, etc. who aren't afraid of hard work and who are willing to do what it takes to become an American citizen...but we have to make it possible for them to do that. And the laws we have now don't do that.

    There's plenty of land here in America...there's plenty of places to live that just sit empty and rot because greedy people don't want to ask fair rent, etc. America still is a land of plenty....with plenty of room for some more good people who want the same things we want. A safe place for our families and a job that pays enough to take care of them.
     
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  17. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    When I worked EMS in Los Fresnos, the INS detention facility was in our area, so I transported patients out of there often. They have always separated the juveniles from the adults, as they cannot legally house juveniles and adults together. That has been the policy for at least thirty years and became law in 1995 or 1996. The Brownsville and McAllen facilities that you hear so much about are temporary holding facilities until they can find a more appropriate placement. If the juvenile has relatives who are here legally, they would be considered first. Otherwise, there are foster parents. Either way, it's an expensive proposition. Letting adults with children go free will simply result in more adults coming with children and, in most cases, there is no way of even knowing whether they are actually the parents, as a child would become a ticket for a free ride.

    Another thing that isn't being considered is that, barring actual danger, a parent who would take his children on a dangerous trek, crossing multiple international borders illegally, doesn't seem to be a fit parent to me. When an American citizen endangers her child, the social workers get involved.
     
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  18. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Parents who are doing just that are doing it because they believe it is more dangerous to stay where they are. Whether the danger is from people or a lack of a way to feed their families...it is still a danger they evidently feel they have to get away from. It takes an awful lot of courage to take that trek too. Most of these people deserve the chance at a better life and an easier way to make that happen so they don't have to do things illegally.

    And I don't think a parent wanting better for their children and doing what they feel they have to do to make that happen should have their children taken away from them...not with the Mexicans or us Americans.
     
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  19. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    Sure, there are bleeding heart conservatives. The Clinton-era law was designed (I think) to keep children from being confined with criminal adults. I think the adults crossing illegally are confined in similar facilities; it was thought that children should be housed in better places. The result of the law, however, led many children to be released to sex traffickers during Obama's last term. Trump is trying to prevent that, and is being criticized for it.
     
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  20. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    It was a law put into effect by Congress and signed by Clinton. Only Congress can undo it (legally).
     
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  21. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Many of them go to friends or relatives who are already here in the States. Some may go into the foster system. Many are returned to their families too. We need to change things so they all are with their families and that can be done.
     
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  22. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Exactly. There can be no Executive Order for this one.
     
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  23. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    You are the target audience, and you are responding as they want you to: emotionally. The next step would be that everyone coming across the border will be dragging a kid with them. Once they get their get-across-the-border free card, they can sell the kid or maybe even recycle them. It would be perhaps the dumbest policy ever enacted, and it will be the end of us.

    That's the plan. No one was crying about kids being separated from their parents when Clinton did. No one cared when Bush did it. No one cared when Obama did it and, in fact, most of the pictures of kids in cages come from his Administration.

    No one cares when children are taken away from American parents, and that happens every day. How many criminals are we going to release from prison so that they can be with their children?

    They are looking for an emotional response that denies even a hint of common sense, and they are getting it.

    Yes, some parents are actually coming here for the reasons you suggest, but most are coming simply because they think they can do better here, and at our expense - in more ways than financially.

    Those who have a good reason to seek asylum can check in at a port of entry, and apply for asylum. The ones who are coming across the border illegally are doing so either because they know they would never qualify, or because they have been led to believe that it would be easier that way.
     
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  24. Ken Anderson

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    The detention centers in McAllen and Brownsville are not long-term facilities. They have been set up because there are too many people coming across to be processed by regular means. The kids who are detained are detained only until a better placement can be found. That is exactly the area that I worked when I was in the Rio Grande Valley and I have dozens of friends there yet who I am in touch with.

    These kids aren't being kept there for long periods of time. They are there until a suitable placement is found. First, they will check to see if there are any relatives who are here legally. Next, they will look for a foster placement or, if there are reasons why a child cannot be placed (generally behavioral in nature), there are group homes.

    In most cases, according to someone who was speaking for the immigration department, they have no way of even determining that the people who come across with children are actually their parents.

    Don't expect suitable placements to be cheap. Even when they can find relatives to take them, they will be paid for doing so. When I was a foster parent in the 1970s and 1980s, I got more than a thousand dollars a month per child, plus all of their expenses, such as food, clothing, entertainment, etc. I was paid more than regular foster parents because I was licensed for emergency care, meaning they could bring someone to me at 2:00 in the morning if they needed to, but that was also more than forty years ago, and I don't think costs have gone down.
     
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  25. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    A couple of other things to consider.

    Don't think for one moment that if the folks doing the processing make a mistake and place a child with someone who does harm, even if it's the person who came across the border pretending to be the child's parent, that there aren't going to be lawsuits and settlements. These people are coming across with no reliable documentation. Given the outcry and the insistence that anyone who crosses the border holding a child's hand be allowed to enter the country freely, it's quite likely that many of these people aren't actually the parents of the children they crossed with.

    Given that the politicians won't allow the government to close the border, and the huge influx of people crossing, there are no safe alternatives but to hold the children somewhere where they are safe until something reliable can be figured out for them. Otherwise, the next outcry will be of the children who were molested, killed, or otherwise abused because the border officials didn't do due diligence.

    Another thing is that groups like Catholic Charities are making a killing on housing children, and they are not housing them in two-parent families, with a picket fence and a dog. No, these are group homes, and you'd better believe they are making sure that they collect every cent that they can. By the way, I am not naming Catholic Charities as a means of slurring Catholics - that's just the only one that I can think of by name at the moment, probably because they have been one of the more vocal non-profits. There are plenty of Protestant and secular groups who are in the same business, but I don't know the names of their agencies. This is going to be a costly endeavor.

    Mostly, this is intended to distract from the IG Report, anyhow.

    usparentschildren-crop.jpg
     
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