I Came Out Of The Closet When I Retired

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Lon Tanner, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    You are right @Julie Stewart you don't lack 'faith' in the sense that you define it but I thought I made it clear in my posts that I was talking about Biblical (Christian) faith which I don't believe atheists have. I did not mean any disrespect here and I apologize for any misunderstanding in that area. It is clear that even Ken as a fellow Christian was talking about faith in general...while I was clearly talking about Christian faith or the theological virtue of faith according to the Bible's teachings.

    In my opinion we all have a head full of secular knowledge. It doesn't matter if this knowledge is limited to a few areas or vast areas. Our heads are constantly filling up with the knowledge or things we see, hear, read, or are taught, etc. So there was no disrepect intended in that stated opinion of mine either.

    As a Christian who believes what the Bible says I cannot understand atheism. God says in the Bible that He puts the knowledge of Himself in our hearts, that the truth about Him is known instinctively. That from the time the world was created we have seen all God has made and that we can clearly see His invisible qualities...His eternal power and divine nature. So that we have no excuse for not knowing God. (Romans 1:19-20) Even when His Word says His Truth is veiled to some...it says it is because they knew the truth but chose not to believe it. My head and my heart believes this. To me to believe in God or not is a choice we make, and if someone chooses atheism then they have chosen not to believe in God, and even though there may be many reasons for their making this choice...it is in my opinion...still a choice they have made.

    It is your choice to make though, and although I cannot understand this choice or agree with it...I can respect your right to choose it.
     
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  2. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    I have often thought that God has only made one mistake. And that mistake was in giving those He created "free will" ...for it is with that free will that mankind chooses to do evil instead of good...and then has the nerve to blame God for what their free will has chosen to do. Yes, there are disgusting things in the Bible...just as there is in the World we live in, but these disgusting things, etc. are happening because of the evil choices mankind is making...not God.
     
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  3. Harry Kemp

    Harry Kemp Member
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    @Babs Hunt, if god didn't give us free will the world would be a mix of the Mitford(?) Wives, Fahrenheit 451, Invasion of The Body Snatchers and Dawn of the Dead ... entertaining, but scary!

    I view any human-conceived religion as transient. I am sure the people who believed in Zeus thought he would always be worshipped. Similarly the early Romans would have clung to their gods, including the more amusing ones like the god for door hinges.

    Time will obliterate all human religions

    Also, most of the bad bits of the bible are sponsored by god, encouraging the murder of a child as a sacrifice, daughters to sleep with their father. In this respect god is very much a run-of-the-mill god of ancient and primitive peoples.
     
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  4. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Well I can agree with you on this one thing @Harry Kemp. Time will obliterate all human religions, but it will not obliterate God, or Jesus Christ and the Christianity that they set up. Nor will it stop Jesus from coming back to earth to set up His Kingdom for eternity.
     
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  5. Harry Kemp

    Harry Kemp Member
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    Eternity is a very long time and earth is a minute place in a universe of unimaginable size. I can't picture any religion created by men lasting more than a few thousand years, ten
    max.
    All things pass away and I don't think Christianity will be any different. It is already, like all religions, languages and species showing a natural evolution and breaking up into a range of contesting sects. Some, like the church of England, were definitely established to further man's interests. The church of England was created by Henry VIII so that he could divorce Catherine of Aragon, marry Anne Boleyn and have a male heir. Christianity would have been radically different if Catherine had produced a son.
     
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  6. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Man has always taken what God created and twisted the original into man created replicas...but God's original creation is still what He created it to be...and that will never change. The Christianity Jesus established on this earth is still the same. What man has created and called "Christianity" is only very bad replicas of the "real deal" and while all these replicas will past away... the originals that God and Jesus created will not.

    Eternity is a very long time...and that is why I am thankful for the confident assurance of knowing where I will be spending eternity and with whom I will be spending it. God has promised this gift to all who ask for it and receive it with faith.
     
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  7. Harry Kemp

    Harry Kemp Member
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    Nothing in religion, at least Christianity appeals to me. The idea of worship abhors me. I am probably much more able than most children and animals. I would not expect them to worship me. Being cleansed of original sin is a depressing concept too. I am indubitably a fallible and imperfect human , but all my failings I own and try to improve myself.

    I feel relieved religion ( the middle eastern sort at least) is being rejected in Europe and hope this means an end to the violence and evil it has paradoxically produced.
     
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  8. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Harry Kemp Christianity in it's efforts to guide folks, condoned beheading and murdering thousands of them, many the most promising souls of their time. I cite one from memory:

    "Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier (also Antoine Lavoisier after the French Revolution; French pronunciation: [ɑ̃twan lɔʁɑ̃ də lavwazje]; 26 August 1743 – 8 May 1794;[1]) was a French nobleman and chemist central to the 18th-century chemical revolution and had a large influence on both the history of chemistry and the history of biology.
    He is widely considered in popular literature as the "father of modern chemistry".
    Lavoisier helped construct the metric system, wrote the first extensive list of elements, and helped to reform chemical nomenclature
    As the French Revolution gained momentum from 1789 on, Lavoisier's world inexorably collapsed around him."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Lavoisier

    He was murdered by fools failing to see the promise he held for them, as well as all mankind.
     
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  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    What does the French Revolution have to do with Christianity? Among several, one of the goals of the revolutionists was to diminish the power of the church.
     
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  10. Harry Kemp

    Harry Kemp Member
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    I am not sure about Lavoisier, being only vaguely aware of his biography, but I am in absolute agreement with you about Christians murdering people for disagreeing with the church, favouring science over religion, etc. The list of such people is very long starting with - I think - Hypatia , a female pagan who studied philosophy who was murdered by a christian crowd in Egypt, including Giordano Bruno, a priest who promoted the idea that the earth was one of many words and some of them inhabited, was burnt at the stake for such radical ideas. Many scientists were pressurized by the church to renounce their beliefs or face torture, for example Galileo, whose heresy was heliocentricism. The church made itself look very silly over that one!
     
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  11. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Ken Anderson My point was that an individual capable of rendering service to mankind ought not be severed from it based on vagaries. That would include decisions of stupidity by Leaders, such as placing one of the most promising young Physicists of their country, Henry Gwynn-Jefferies Mosely, in a combat group during war. Predictably, a lifetime possibility of contribution to Science was abruptly ended when he was killed, as happened with Lavoisier.
     
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  12. Harry Kemp

    Harry Kemp Member
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    The stupidity of leaders is legendary. One of the few sensible things said by von Ludendorff, an early befriender of Hitler was that the British army were lions led by donkeys. In World War I our leaders thought it was perfectly acceptable to send troops out of trenches to attack machine gun posts, at great cost of life.

    My personal take on it is that any leaders who want a bloody war should be in the front line in the worst of the fighting, with all their like-minded supporters. Leave the rest of us, including the very able at home!
     
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