House Gop Plan Would Cut Medicare, Social Security To Balance Budget

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Ken Anderson, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Do you remember how Democrats are always saying that Republicans are going to cut Medicare and Social Security? Well, in past years these have been lies.

    This time, I am not so sure it's a lie. House Republicans released a budget proposal that would balance in nine years, but do so by making large cuts to Medicare and Social Security.

    Here's the part that infuriates me. In every story that I read about it, they refer to Medicare and Social Security as entitlement programs.

    Although we have paid into these programs our entire working lives, they are referring to them as entitlement programs.

    Medicaid is an entitlement program. Giving a free ride to illegal immigrants is an entitlement program. The healthcare program that our congress has given themselves and their families is an entitlement program.

    To me, this seems to be a sure way for the Republicans to lose their majority.

    As it is since I have been on Social Security, every raise that we have gotten has met by a simultaneous rise in my Medicare premium.

    I could understand the argument that these are expensive programs and that those of us who collect on them are likely to collect more than we've paid in, but we have paid into these programs, against our will, throughout our working lives.

    It also concerns me that we are supposed to believe that Medicare and Social Security costs are breaking our budget, yet many of these same Republicans (and every Democrat) are eager to bring illegal immigrants in here, at a huge expense that will never end. Too many of them, in both parties, seem to enjoy waging senseless wars, and every one of them is paid far, far more than he or she is worth.

    -- Chicago Tribune
     
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  2. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I don't know that these budget proposals will pass, and I suspect that they will not, but I can't imagine why the Republicans would sacrifice the midterms. I also don't know just which of them is involved in this, other than Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio.
     
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  3. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    This is all bullshit propagated by a government which has bloated itself beyond saving. The S/S dictum had absolutely no provisions for the ridiculous benefits being doled out. It predicated on retirement benefits ONLY. It stipulated anonymity. Try to go anywhere today without giving your S/S #.

    The politicians have raped the original concept of S/S to the point of rupture.

    Despite Presidential power, Trump will not be able to remedy much of this, I think. The future holds......God knows what. Frank
     
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    As long as we are wasting billions upon billions of dollars that we don't have on things that we don't need and, in many cases, that the world would be better off without, there is no justification for it.
     
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  5. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    One is a representative and one is a senator....
     
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  6. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Guess I'm lucky...I never paid into theses programs being a stay at home mom. It's all a nice freebie for me, so I don't complain no matter what it's called....more of an entitlement for me really.

    My husband did pay into it though and I'm using part of that....but I'm not worried about it.

    I don't know the future but I know I'll survive....my kids probably won't even need their social security
    Even though they got lots taken out...maybe someone else will use that..

    As for Medicare...who knows where health care will be in the future?

    I'm tired of all the fear mongering....I'm sure things will be different in the future but I'm not worried about mine...things don't change that quickly.

    We've had illegals here using resources as you say for a long time now....my life has not changed one iota.

    I go by what really happens in my life not by what's predicted by either side.

    And to be honest...in the 14 years Ive lived in Fresno through democrat and republican presidents...my life stays the same...which is good.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  7. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Medicare and Social Security are indeed entitlement programs, as people that have paid taxes based on these programs are "entitled" to benefits at retirement.

    Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income, et al are welfare programs and are not classified as "entitlement" as they are paid via general revenue funding.
     
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  8. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    They are entitlement programs only for those who have not paid into them. Otherwise, they are no more an entitlement program than a mandatory insurance policy. After making insurance payments, you have every right to expect them to pay their part. That's not an entitlement program.
     
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  9. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    It's a free country and you are "entitled" to be completely wrong, when you so wish.

    upload_2018-6-23_13-40-40.png

    https://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/entitlement.htm

    Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income, etc. are NOT entitlement programs.
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Okay, in that case, every federal employee is receiving entitlements. I get what you're saying but I doubt that the semantics are going to help Republicans maintain a majority by going after Social Security and Medicare.

    By the way, what "legal recourse" would you have if they cut your Social Security? By that definition, how is Medicaid not an entitlement? Eligible people have sued and won for being denied Medicaid benefits. In fact, right now, the State of Maine is fighting a court ruling forcing it to expand its Medicaid coverage.

    By the way, a congressional definition defining Medicare and Social Security as entitlements was the point of this thread. I am not saying they cannot define it as such. I am saying that this is not going to help them in the midterms, and I stand by that.

    Basically, I am saying that Congress referring to Social Security and Medicare as an entitlement program that they are going to cut is a bad idea for the midterms, and you are countering me be showing that Congress is referring to Social Security and Medicare as an entitlement program.

    They could define access to your bank account as an entitlement program if they wanted to, given that you are entitled to it because it's your money, but when they follow that by cutting your bank account by a large percentage, that wouldn't incline you to vote for them in November.
     
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  11. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Please show me this budget proposal that is making these large cuts. The article mentions the possibility of future cuts for future retirees, but there is no budget proposal saying such. The tax bill on the table would increase the deficit over ten years. The subject of entitlements such as S.S. and Medicare have often been discussed as needing to be addressed by both Rs and Ds. The Ds generally want to increase the cap and the Rs want to raise the retirement age... most often for people 55 and under and phased in. Eventually something must be done. That it is being talked about is nothing new.

    Since day one, the social insurance programs have been defined as "entitlements". Perhaps you missed the memo. Social welfare programs, such as Medicaid, SSI, etc. have not been entitlements.
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I posted the news article, which is what I was referring to. I could post others, but they don't give a lot of additional information. If you believe it's wrong, take it up with the Chicago Tribune. It certainly wouldn't be the first time they were wrong.

    You're missing the point. You're not wrong, but you're not addressing the same thing that I was, but that's okay. I am talking about how this is likely to affect the chances of the Republicans in the midterms if they go into it pushing a budget that cuts Social Security and Medicare while funding welfare for illegal immigrants. Voters don't generally look at the congressional website and accept that something is okay because it says it right there.

    My point remains the same. You are pointing to the fact that the legislature has referred to Medicare and Social Security as an entitlement as if that should make it okay with everyone, the point that I am making is that, if they do indeed go into the midterms with a budget that calls for cuts in these programs, it is not going to bode well for them. They lose votes when they raise the retirement age but if they push a budget that cuts Social Security or Medicare benefits for people who are collecting it, they are going to lose a lot more, and no one is going to care what the congressional website says, particularly not in a climate where the Republican base is already upset about illegal immigration.

    People are not going to consider that it's okay that they are getting less from Social Security now, or paying for their Medicare, because, after all, it says right here on the congressional website that it's an entitlement. No, they are going to be angry that we are spending a huge amount of money on illegal immigrants, foreign wars and aid, and congressional paychecks and perks while trying to make up the difference by cutting Social Security and Medicare.

    People might be willing to make sacrifices if they are persuaded that they are necessary and if it appears that sacrifices are made elsewhere, as well. But that's not the case here. I have heard of no discussion about cutting congressional benefits.

    It might be fine with you but there are a lot of Republicans that it won't be fine with it. I only became aware of this because it is already under discussion on a Facebook Republican group, who otherwise support Republicans, although not necessarily Marco Rubio or Paul Ryan.

    Both of Maine's Republican legislators will support whatever Paul Ryan tells them to, and that is true of other Republican legislators. Historically, the Party in power loses seats in the midterms anyhow, so this is not going to be a winner for them.
     
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  13. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Nowhere in the article you seeded did any republicans say they would be pushing such a budget before the mid term elections. The headline is somewhat accurate, but fails to delineate a time frame for each. Welfare was front and center in the body of the article, with S.S. and Medicare being handled like this...
    A democrat said the republicans were considering it.

    This is what the republicans commented on...
    Toomey further stated...
    Then...

    Guess what Sanders, you are the one likely to cut S.S. and Medicare by promising not to do anything.

    The fact remains there must be some type of changes... at some point in time, regarding Social Security and Medicare. Welfare programs must also be corrected. The dems and socialist Sanders are trying to scare seniors by trying to lump various programs together in one basket... and it seems to be working.

    Edit: EVERY SINGLE ELECTION CYCLE, the dems try this tactic.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ublicans-congress-want-take-away-social-secu/

    As for the mid terms, it is a toss up as to who controls the house after the election. The senate is very likely to remain republican.
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I posted a news article here and summarized it; I didn't write it. You have made some good points. Although I don't find the Chicago Tribune article to be over the top, there are political attacks against Rubio by Democrats that are highly exaggerated, but that should be no surprise. I didn't include them, though.

    Rubio has frequently advocated for raising the retirement age and has often spoken in favor of Ryan's plans for cuts in Social Security and Medicare. None of this is new on his part. My concern is in making it an issue going into the midterms, and the suggestion in the news articles that these are being proposed in a Republican budget.

    The time to get upset about something is not when it's too late to do anything about it, and you might have noticed that, although it's been ages since the Congress has actually passed a budget, Omnibus bills include a whole lot of stuff that is not revealed until it's too late, passed overnight, without anyone having read it. If it turns out that people are being upset about something that doesn't come about, we'll never know whether it was never intended to begin with or whether it wasn't advanced because people were upset about it.

    In 2016, while running for president, Rubio backed off of cuts to the program, suggesting, instead, a series of raises in the retirement age, also part of Ryan's plan. While running for reelection, he also brings on the gentler approach.

    Last fall, Rubio was in favor of making cuts to Social Security, so the attacks don't seem to be out of character for either Rubio or Ryan. Given that Rubio's positions are usually relaxed during election years, it's hard to pin him down on any one position.

    One thing is clear, however. While he can be depended upon to vote against controlling our borders, and in favor of bringing more dependent people into the country, he views cuts in Social Security and Medicare as being central to his economic plans for the country, and this is going to be a problem.

    You can't scare people into accepting cuts to their benefits or a lower standard of living when these cuts are coming from people who are surely not willing to lowe their own standard of living or that of their families, and who are willing to take on other huge expenses, such as illegal immigration, that are not viewed as being in the country's best interests.
     
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  15. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Inaction will do that as well. For example the Medicare trust fund.
    In 2017, $705B was shelled out for all of Medicare. Medicare part A will be insolvent in 2026, meaning the revenue will only meet 91% of estimated expenses which were $299.4B in 2017. A 9% cut in services is virtually guaranteed, unless Congress were to take that 9% from the general revenue fund. Part A expenses for 2027 are expected to be $535B. Congress would have to make up $48B each year with the figure likely rising each year. How likely is it that congress will allocate that funding, especially given the projected size of the federal debt by that time, which is well above 125%, which is only the marketable debt and does not include non marketable debt.

    Salvaging the Medicare part A is possible, but S.S. is likely to tip everything in 2034. There, a gap of 25% will need to be made up from general revenue. That amount is somewhere in the $300B~$400B range annually. I cannot see congress allocating that amount of money. The full faith and credit thing will likely be a joke by then.

    Whether congress does anything or does nothing... cuts are going to happen.
     
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  16. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    I don't see why they would need to. Social Security was envisioned as being an actual fund, which would be self-sustaining, but that all went awry early on when they started including, as beneficiaries, people who never paid into it.

    So yes, you might say that the Social Security fund, as well as Medicare, will be insolvent by whatever year you want to put on it, but it's like global warming or the Second Coming of Christ; whenever the predictions fail to materialize, another date is set. That doesn't mean that the earth might never be destroyed by global warming or that Christ is never going to return, but it does mean that the end dates are wholly unpredictable, and stated dates unreliable. Our whole country is insolvent, along with most of the rest of the world, yet we keep handing out money. Social Security and Medicare at least produce an income to help offset the outcome, something that is not the case with Medicaid or foreign aid, yet no one seems concerned about running out of money for these programs.
     
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  17. Michelle Anderson

    Michelle Anderson Well-Known Member
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    A while back, I read a column written by the late Charles Krauthammer who was writing about Obama's budget director Jack Lew's assertion that Social Security benefits "are paid for with payroll taxes collected from workers and their employers throughout their careers. These taxes are placed in a trust fund dedicated to paying benefits owed to current and future beneficiaries…the trust fund will continue to accrue interest and grow until 2025, and will have adequate resources to pay full benefits for the next 26 years."

    Dr. Krauthammer wrote, "This claim is a breathtaking fraud. The pretense is that a flush trust fund will pay retirees for the next 26 years. Lovely, except for one thing: The Social Security trust fund is a fiction. … In other words, the Social Security trust fund contains—nothing.”

    This prompted me to delve into the issue, and I do wish I hadn't, because what I discovered does not make me feel secure at all!

    I hate that I have to agree with Al Gore, of all people, but it is a "risky scheme" and it does not have a "lock box."

    The government has repeatedly raided the so-called Social Security trust fund. This is why you will hear -- or read -- that Social Security money will last only until [insert a random number which changes every time such a statement is uttered].

    While Social Security has what is called a "trust fund," those funds are "invested" in special government bonds. According to the law, both principal and interest on the bonds must be repaid by generations down the line.

    These investments are essentially paid out of one government "pocket" and owed by another pocket.

    Indeed , the bonds in the so-called trust fund are counted by the government as both an asset and a liability. This is because they are part of the federal debt.

    So, in essence, the "trust fund" exists the same way the piggy bank of a drug addict's children exists. When the addict raids the piggy bank, even though there is the intent of repaying it, there comes a time when the bank is not replenished and the children have no savings.

    Like any Ponzi scheme, the structure will work only as long as those future generations can continue to pay. After that, the whole thing collapses.

    It would have been nice if this had been overhauled years ago, but it wasn't.

    It would be nice if they would fix it now, but they won't.

    It looks like the system will limp along, robbing Peter to pay Paul, until it can no longer do so.

    And in the meantime, robbing seniors will suffice.
     
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  18. Michelle Anderson

    Michelle Anderson Well-Known Member
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    You ARE lucky. I worked only a little less than half of my working years. That has affected my monthly check to the point that I honestly don't know what I would do if they cut it so that it's any smaller.
     
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  19. Michelle Anderson

    Michelle Anderson Well-Known Member
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    Entitlement Programs of the federal government include Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Unemployment and Welfare Programs. Entitlement programs are rights granted to citizens and certain non-citizens by federal law.

    Entitlement programs can be broken into non-contributory and contributory programs. Non-contributory programs are free handouts - they equal "something for nothing". Contributory programs must be earned - they equal "something for something".

    -- FederalSafetyNet.com
     
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  20. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Social Security began as a contributory program but was very quickly raided on behalf of people who were non-contributors. Medicare began as a mandatory insurance policy and continues to be such. The average worker has no choice in whether to participate in either of these programs, so it is a matter of concern when someone like Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio, both of whom have become wealthier beyond imagination due to their time in office, and who will enjoy taxpayer-funded medical benefits for life, even discuss cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits while throwing money at illegal immigrants, supporting endless wars, and numerous other wasteful spending.

    No, I don't accept it. If we can't afford Medicare and Social Security for American citizens who have paid into this program throughout their working years, then we damned sure can't afford to take on more illegal immigrants. A government that can't live up to the promises made to seniors cannot afford to throw money at people who hate us overseas. That's like Al Gore asking everyone else to reduce their energy uses while he uses more electricity than a small city and flies around the world in private jets. No, I don't accept that.

    If the US government is indeed broke, then it damned well better start acting like it before asking us to suck it up.
     
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  21. Michelle Anderson

    Michelle Anderson Well-Known Member
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    }

    No. All of the above are classified as "entitlement programs."

    In recent times, Social Security and Medicare and other programs into which Americans pay for are have been added and called "contributory entitlement programs" as opposed to welfare, Medicaid and other "gimme" programs which are known as "non-contributary entitlement programs." But you don't ever hear the first part when they are being referred to. All are lumped together as "entitlement programs."

    Whether by design or not, it gives many people the idea that they are gifts from the government or that it's okay to take all or part of them away.
     
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  22. Michelle Anderson

    Michelle Anderson Well-Known Member
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    "House Republicans released a proposal Tuesday that would balance the budget in nine years — but only by making large cuts to entitlement programs, including Medicare, that President Trump vowed not to touch."

    <SNIP>

    "The House Republican budget, titled “A Brighter American Future,” would remake Medicare by giving seniors the option of enrolling in private plans that compete with traditional Medicare, a system of competition designed to keep costs down but dismissed by critics as an effort to privatize the program. Along with other changes, the budget proposes to squeeze $537 billion out of Medicare over the next decade."

    <SNIP>
    "Social Security comes in for more modest cuts of $4 billion over the decade, which the budget projects could be reached by eliminating concurrent receipt of unemployment benefits and Social Security disability insurance."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...t-medicare-social-security-to-balance-budget/
     
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  23. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Michelle Anderson
    IOW, the government's one hand knows full-well what the other hand is doing, but doesn't do anything about it when unacceptable activity is being foisted.
    Frank
     
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  24. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Okay, I was wrong. Medicaid is an "entitlement", the republicans have made some mythical proposal that appears unlikely to see the light of day. Mr. Krauthammer was marvelous in his dissertation about social security, without acknowledging it being that way since day one, while slightly acknowledging it was set up just like a savings account at a bank... which is exactly how it operates and always has.

    Like Melania... I really don't care.
     
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  25. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Harry Havens
    Everything was OK by me, until you wrote, "I really don't care."

    Why write, then?
    Frank
     
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