History Would Be Great If Were True

Discussion in 'History & Geography' started by Martin Alonzo, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    1.gif Historical truth.jpg 130312-004-929A1A78.jpg We all have memories that we remember photos and video of what was supposed a historic fact but when you see real photos of what happen it was different.
     
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  2. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    A real photo...
    upload_2017-7-20_11-30-30.png

    This looks really organized...
    upload_2017-7-20_11-31-59.png

    A casual walk on the beach...
    upload_2017-7-20_11-34-15.png

    Where there is smoke... is there fire?
    upload_2017-7-20_11-35-42.png

    What were the British losses at Dunkirk?
    Seriously... who is actually trying to rewrite history about Dunkirk?
     
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  3. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Are you claiming there was no disastrous route of invasion forces, terrible losses and evacuation by any ship available?
    The invasion - evacuation facts are documented and available and any film version is simply exploitative theater.
    I don't think anyone is trying to rewrite Dunkirk landing history they're making a film.
     
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  4. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    You might show source of any photo's you expect others to accept.
     
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  5. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    Harry you got your photos the same place I did funny you showed only some and not all
     
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  6. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Why didn't you show more of those pictures, instead of limiting to 2 rather benign pictures and then attempt your own rewrite of history, by belittling the loss of lives at Dunkirk.
     
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  7. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    @

    Selective editing Martin, done to what end, to minimize the disaster? And why?
     
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  8. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    I show the first picture in the media and the other from the actual front. I am not belittling the disaster which was Dunkirk but only showing what are memories and how they are manipulated by photos in the media. I in no way minimize what happen only what we believe happen by the media.
     
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  9. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    What I 'we' believe happened then and now are the same. 340,000 retreating allied troops were stranded on a beach too shallow to be rescued by naval ships that stood by off shore while public boats of all sizes shapes and models took the awaiting troops from the beach to the naval ships. The rescued amounted to near 3/4 of the British Army (allies). It took an amazing effort by civilian boats that made trip after trip from beach to naval ships. Dunkirk rescue took days while troops with no choice waited on the beach. I knew that then( within release of the event details) as I know it now.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/low/dates/stories/june/4/newsid_3500000/3500865.stm
    There was never any manipulated memories except in naysayers with an agenda.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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  10. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    And The first photo was true is that what you are saying???
     
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  11. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    You know what I'm saying,. The troops waited to be picked up by small boat sometimes for days.
     
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  12. Bill Boggs

    Bill Boggs Very Well-Known Member
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    You can't tell a story with any few pictures. It's hard to get accurate re-inactments. Wear is hell. That's a worn out phrase but it's true. A photographer can only capture a very small part of it, the it being where he's standing, sitting in a given scene. None have captured it all. The whole of it is in the minds of the participants around each one's small area, his part of the war. It is usually worse that can be captured on somebody's camera. And often the cameraman is bringing up the rear or with a second wave. Dunkirk was war, where somebody faced death and a few photos can not tell the story. Ever.
     
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  13. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    And hopefully you understand what I said.

    I am not denying anything you have said all I said what the media publish was not what happened way over dramatized then what was true
     
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  14. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    If I am understanding you correctly, you are stating the "MEDIA" is saying the movie Dunkirk is being overdramatized, compared to what actually happened.

    Is that what you are stating?
     
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  15. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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  16. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    As you can post two links from the mainstream media of Jessica Lynch, perhaps you can provide the link for your original picture, that says "The Historical TRUTH-Calm, Methodical Evacuation"....
    upload_2017-7-22_12-50-56.png

    The WaPo story fell apart nearly the minute it was published and created quite a few accusations of WaPo attempting to promote government propaganda. They got called out by quite a few others in the mainstream media, as your links indicate.

    So let's talk about your source for the picture above, with its terribly misleading caption. It is important to understand this "media" you alluded to in that picture. Where does it come from?
     
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  17. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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  18. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely none of which have the captions in your original post.

    Did you write those captions? If not, where did they come from?
     
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  19. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    What are you bugging about where they not the photos or not. It seem some one else has an agenda
     
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  20. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I have an agenda... trying to determine the truth behind your original post. A link to those captioned photos would assist in determining the validity of the source.
     
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  21. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    Are you concerned about the heading if I put it on or not the heading says. The historical truth the picture came from an archive of time magazine and is take at that time. Calm the solders are in lines not being fired upon waiting to get on a ship. Methodical that means there was a method and if they were in lines that mean there was a method they were not running helter skelter.
     
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  22. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Well-Known Member
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    The premise being that at some point in history, Time magazine published the reference photo, emblazoned with the caption "Historical TRUTH- Calm, Methodical Evacuation".

    Which can only mean, they were taking a rest and having tea during this picture...
    [​IMG]

    All I ask is to have the website address for your captioned pictures, as you may have found the holy grail of truth and it would likely contain other examples that would enlighten me.
     
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  23. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    You state, "Yes the media and the truth some time are not the same for example".

    And ones interpretation of an event based on a photo are sometimes erroneous as well.
    You arrive at a conclusion based on a photo. That does not discount historical records of the evacuation,certainly not simply by your interpretation or assertions.
    So be clear, are you saying the evacuation or the invasion was orderly or that they were not under fire on the beach in either case??
    On the days long evacuation allied planes were giving them cover and German tanks apparently were stopped from intervening.
    Dunkirk evacuation facts https://www.britannica.com/event/Dunkirk-evacuation
     
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  24. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/dunkirk-evacuation-40-facts.html/2

    from link
    1. But over the next week or so, a total of 338,226 stranded troops were successfully evacuated under intense enemy bombing.
    2. Along with the British soldiers, 140,000 Polish, French and Belgian troops were also rescued.
    3. A total of 933 Royal Navy ships and civilian vessels were involved in the Operation Dynamo.
    4. Around 200,000 soldiers waited patiently on the ‘Dunkirk Mole’ – a long stone and wooden jetty on the edge of the port – and were eventually rescued amid hail of enemy shells.
    5. Rest of the soldiers had to wait in cold, shoulder deep water for hours before the Royal Navy ships evacuated them.
    6. A total of 700 small and mostly civilian boats were used to pick up the stranded soldiers from the shallow waters near the beach. They were then transferred to the bigger vessels waiting in the deep waters, small boats had to then make multiple trips to fetch more troops from the beach.
    7. The patience and the resilience of the troops was exemplary, Signaller Alfred Baldwin said recalling the events at Dunkirk that there were no pushing and shoving by the troops, and that it seemed as if people were waiting for a bus, it sure did not seem like a war zone, except the continuous German bombing.
     
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  25. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I just watched the movie and the movie showed the soldiers lined up along the beach in an orderly manner, much as you show in your photos. The scenes that you are showing from the movie were immediately after they were bombed or strafed, and some of the people lying on the ground were dead. After the bombers passed by, those who were still able to get up did so. I am by no means an expert on Dunkirk but I haven't seen anything suggesting that the movie took great liberties with the truth, any more than every movie does.
     
    #25
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