Erasing History

Discussion in 'History & Geography' started by Diane Lane, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    What is said about the others that kept slaves?
    Africans-Arabs-Indigenous peoples all took -take slaves. Beside if rights are restricted as in misogyny freedom to vote,of and from religion, free press then slavery continues it's simply a matter of degree.
    Caste still exists as does human rights denied.
     
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  2. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    American Indian tribes took slaves, and they burned entire forests to get an advantage in war or while hunting, yet we're supposed to view our indigenous people as if they were peaceful stewards of nature. Too often, history becomes little more than a political narrative.
     
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  3. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    Again, a true statement. History is skewed to please the person it is being told to. It's always the other guy who starts a fight or a war, Edison was a master inventor and Columbus discovered the U.S. Ben Franklin was beloved by all, and Andrew Jackson beat the British outside of New Orleans.

    Edison was a great idea man and businessman, but no so much the actual hands on inventor. Columbus didn't discover America, Ben Franklin had some uh, sexuality problems and flirted his time as an Ambassor to France.
    Andy Jackson slaughtered hundreds of Seminole Indians because they protected escaped slaves.

    Bottom line is that there are always some falsehoods with nearly all of the way stories are told about the major actors involved with history but the Great things they did should always be remembered.
     
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  4. Augusta Heathbourne

    Augusta Heathbourne Active Member
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    I was sad about the removal of the R E Lee statue in New Orleans until I read that Lee himself disapproved of monuments to the lost cause on the grounds that it would aggravate Northerners and, by doing so, do no favours to Southerners; that it was a needless expense in a time of want; and that the country should follow the lead of other nations by letting the battlefields grow over and heal, and NOT be preserved - which only preserved the passions of the war itself. That paraphrases what he said in documents that can be found at the University of Virginia and the Library of Congress. I admire many of the Generals of the Civil War, both North and South, and think they are worth reading about, knowing about and remembering.

    That said, I get very weary of political correctness and sometimes think 'just leave the darn monuments alone, aren't there enough real problems in your city to solve without wasting time, money and effort on this?' But apparently not.
     
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  5. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    A monument to man is to celebrate an accomplishment. Killing people is hardly to be celebrated.

    A monument to god , image,idol or honorific as 'supreme', is unfortunately often peripherally recognizing the atrocities committed in the gods name.
     
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  6. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    The Taliban and other fundamental sectarian 'followers' of the Islamic faith are very good at destroying antiquities. Surely we don't wish to emulate that lot. Still a two hundred year (or less), commemorative ,memorial, remembrance, or celebratory street or building naming isn't the equivalent of a Western Wall or statues as ,
    "The Buddhas of Bamiyan 4th- and 5th-century
    [3] monumental statues of standing buddha, carved into the side of a cliff. They were dynamited and destroyed in March 2001 by the Taliban, on orders from leader Mullah Mohammed Omar,[7] after the Taliban government declared that they were idols....." (edited Wikipedia )

    Is the removal of those historical American 'hero's' equivalent to the destruction of the statue of Iraqi's
    Saddam Hussein statue toppled in Bagdhad,? Or of Lenin by the Ukes?

    What if the Pietà was destroyed by a future secular movement?
    What if Jerusalem ( city of peace) was renamed Islamsalam. Where does it stop. Perhaps an * could be simply added with an explanation of the objections.

    Personally I am hesitant to alter historical figures or names unless they reach the level like unto a
    Pol Pot,Stalin or Hitler.
    Soon there will no doubt be a PC and debate on every symbolic remembrance because 'someone' is offended.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
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  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Kalvin Mitnic ......'someone' is offended."

    Violent response to being "offended" in a way that beleaguers only the mind indicates the degree of convolution and miasmic content it must contain. Posing violent response to an offense aimed at physical harm is yet something else. Call me a "dumb Polack", and I will shrug while weighing quietly your ignorance. Lash out at my person with a weapon, and I will shoot you. Both acts offend me.
    Frank
     
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  8. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Often it's a perceived offense, a contrived offense or a litigation offense.
     
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  9. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Ahh but there are degrees and there are the derma impaired. Getting into religion or politics is a sure means of assessing the skin thickness of a debater. Actually some come across more as a wanker than master debater.

    Calling someone a dumb Polock is tantamount to calling Trump POTUS isn't it? ;)
     
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  10. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Truth or dare seems to matter little given Willy's wandering Willy,impeachment and yet hefty speaking fees.
     
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  11. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Kalvin Mitnic ".... a dumb Polock...."

    In order to truly apply, "Polack" must not be misspelled, especially as close as your rendition is to a type of fish.....
    Frank
     
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  12. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    I don't know. My mother used to tell me that fish was brain food.
     
    #37
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
  13. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    Sheesh, I'm grounded deciphering your response. Could mean I'm "out of touch" due to inadequate fish, or, you are sublimely chastising me for "forum harassment". The latter, of course, reflects obviously upon my lack of tactful sparring ability, and my dislike of fishmongers as well. So, reviewing my recent past here, reflecting, I've relented and pulled my head back into my shell, quietly awaiting the perceived opportunity to suddenly strike out, like the great Snapping Turtle.

    Reflecting back awhile, the place has seemed to me to be a bit subdued in recent weeks, no vicious action at all. So, I thought I'd "stir things up" a bit. It just happens as a consequence, ya know?
    Frank
     
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  14. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Actually, there was a third alternative -- I was making a joke.
     
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  15. Kalvin Mitnic

    Kalvin Mitnic Well-Known Member
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    Polock-Polack pish-tosh. It sounds the same in a verbal offensive, aka Oh Fence Sieve insult. (a dumb Polack would never hear any difference.) :)
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Polock
    Polock

    English
    Noun
    Polock (plural Polocks)

    1. Alternative spelling of Polack
     
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  16. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    I seem to always be at a loss to perceive a comment being in a light vein. Maybe because of my rigid black or white interpretation of everything, never "grey". I ought to fix that.....
    Frank
     
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  17. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    Please, do not fret nor have any angst about the inability to go grey. Although it would seem that folks are continually attempting to shade or lighten black and white and then calling them a different name, it is still in the grey spectrum.
    I too have a lot of difficulty with anything less than yes or no, black or white but we live in a "maybe" world where grey (with the exception of hair) is the name of an enclave with millions upon million of members.
     
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  18. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Very Well-Known Member
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    Don't give up your sense of humor or you might become a snowflake
     
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  19. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    I rather like snowflakes. Each one is singularly different from all others which means that for a brief period until it melts it is a rarity.

    Oh, you mean THAT KIND of snowflake! Naw, it takes way to much to offend me.
     
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  20. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Veteran Member
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    Sometimes I have a hard time even taking the serious stuff seriously.
     
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  21. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    seriously?
     
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  22. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Very Well-Known Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    We should hope, then, that in this perspective opposites do not attract each other......:rolleyes:
    Frank
     
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  23. Gloria Mitchell

    Gloria Mitchell Very Well-Known Member
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    I think you all sound drunk or sniffed to much Vicks vapor rub :p
     
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  24. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Very Well-Known Member
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    does icy hot count?
     
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