Energy Demand And Supply

Discussion in 'Energy & Fuel' started by Harry Havens, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    As it now is projected to wander around and dump up to 3' of rain in the area from Corpus Christi to NE of Houston, the impact could turn out to be very huge on gasoline prices. Houston/Galveston refines 2.2bpd, Beaumont area refines 1.2mbpd and the Lake Charles, La. area refines about 800kbpd. That adds up to 4.2mbpd or about 24% of this nations capacity. Looking at just gasoline, these refineries produce about 1.9mbpd of gasoline. I am NOT suggesting that all that would be stopped, but the potential for some portion of that production to be taken off line is quite realistic, imo.
     
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  2. Rob Mowrey

    Rob Mowrey New Member
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    Energy is free you build a Dam and a lake builds up behind it but in a year all the water that was there has flowed through the dam . But there is still water in the lake because the sun picked it up and put it back in the lake , so what costs is the device for collecting the energy. Now the question is how much do we spend to build a device that will collect it . A couple hundred or billions . If the device cost a hundred or a thousand and would run your home or car for years would you do it and think of the jobs it would create every building would be refitted every vehicle would have to be refitted or replaced.
     
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  3. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Harry Havens
    But, are they being built? Or, WILL they be built? What agency might be involved in influencing these questions? Frank
     
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  4. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Tim Burr
    The starving in the world would also be happy to be able to consume the Distillers Grain".
    Frank
     
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  5. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @Harry Havens
    Just how much does Hurricane activity affect refineries? Obviously, they operate 24/7, no matter what. I don't seer refining as a particularly electric-power intense activity, so back-up power might not be terribly costly invested up front while building a refinery. Or?
    Or, might the unscheduled shutting down of a refining operation be woven into the original "plan"? Frank
     
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  6. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Veteran Member
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    @rob mowrey
    Am having a bit of difficulty understanding your wording, but find it intriguing, the part I follow. Could you clarify your thoughts here a bit, for this foggy old fart? Frank
     
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  7. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    Unless the dam is built by beavers, there is a cost. Granted Hydroelectric is more efficient and we should see more being built. But why does the USA lag behind the rest of the world? Ecologists worried about river ecosystems. Then there is the factoid that smaller hydroelectric projects cost more per KWH to build that large plants. In a nut shell, cost and efficiency are the drivers, yet there is no such thing as free energy.
     
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  8. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    A. They are being built, but largely by foreign companies, as the U.S. has limited capacity for building these type ships.
    B. Terminals are currently the biggest problem. Existing. The timeline for completion of the approved projects is not readily known by me. However, the FERC seems to be the determining agency.
    C. The Jones Act prevents foreign flagged ships from movement of materials along the coastal waterways of the U.S. Over the past few years there have been attempts to expand this to exports as well. Currently there is a bill in Congress to require 30% of LNG exports be shipped on U.S. flagged vessels. The bill seems to have stalled. The idea was to force more ship building (and jobs) back to the U.S. but expansion of U.S ship building would push the timeline very far out and likely make U.S. LNG too costly versus the rapid rise of "other" countries entering the market.

    So the current problem seems to be lack of shipping. Which of course, also requires feeder pipelines etc. Currently shale oil production is being inhibited by too much natural gas and the resultant flaring bumping up against EPA restrictions. The increases in overall U.S. production seems to be in reopening of old traditional wells. Not sure how much longer that can last.
     
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  9. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    Last part first... the refineries have been having a field day since oil prices plummeted in 2014. Gasoline consumption is up, exports are way up, etc. If there has been one major problem it is refineries foregoing some regular maintenance to keep the money rolling in. So I don't think an unexpected shutdown is part of any plan.

    A reliable unblinking electrical system is required for control systems, etc. Setting that aside, if we are to believe the electric car industry (and I can find nothing that would dispute their findings), every gallon of gasoline requires 6KWH to produce. (What I did find from 2005 EIA data would suggest that is fairly accurate across the entire stream). Now consider 42 gallons in a barrel and a place like Baytown with nearly 600Kbpd flow. Not sure how much backup would be required or the reliability.
     
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  10. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    In Maine, the agenda is to remove hydroelectric dams, and some have been removed already. We have two dams just outside of town, but both have been sold to a Canadian company and sell electricity to Canada, not Maine, while we pay high transfer costs to get our power from elsewhere.
     
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  11. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    How do you gentlemen feel about nuclear power plants?
     
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  12. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    #27
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2018
  13. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    So it's a lot more complicated than you would think. How about "Clean coal technology"?
     
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  14. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    I am suspicious of its economic viability. A large part of its business model and electric costs per kW was based on using carbon capture to push out more crude oil in wells where output was dwindling and oil was still fetching $100+ per barrel. Considering the government grants, etc., I tend to believe it might not make the grade as a stand alone process, unless crude prices get back to levels of the business model. In other words, I don't think it is currently competitive with all the other options.
     
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  15. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Veteran Member
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    They are saying that gas prices will go up because of Hurricane Harvey. I guess I better go to town and fill my car gas tank up.
     
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