California Is Burning Up & Going To Hell

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Lon Tanner, Nov 10, 2018 at 12:48 PM.

  1. Lon Tanner

    Lon Tanner Very Well-Known Member
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    Could All these present and past devastating fires have been prevented? Trump thinks so and is blaming State Forestry officials.
     
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  2. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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  3. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Veteran Member
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    In one way that I presently know of, he might have a point.
    My wife had a fairly large piece of property in Idaho which was mostly forest. The state government helped the Forestry Service with the task of cleaning the underbrush of forests by allowing property owners a tax break for those who cleaned out the underbrush to help prevent fires.
    That which was deemed Federal property had to be cleaned by the Forest Service but private property was done by the owners and sometimes with a substantial fine for not doing so. (Cleaning also included noxious plants)

    What I am driving at is if the Forestry Service of California isn’t manned well enough or for whatever reason hasn’t accomplished the necessary preventative measures to prevent fires, then much of the blame could be placed upon them.
    Noteably, the National Forests are controlled by the Dept. of the Interior and if that department is the actual culprit who is giving President Trump his information, then there is probably some noteworthy validity to it.
     
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  4. Beatrice Taylor

    Beatrice Taylor Very Well-Known Member
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    It's sad that we live in a society that always has the money to deal with disasters but we never have the money to be proactive.

    I think that the forest service, utility companies, and the general population could do a better job at fire prevention.

    I also believe that the government at all levels needs to increase zoning laws that prevent building and rebuilding in certain areas that seem to be prone to natural disasters.

    I could be wrong but in this case, I smell a whiff of politics mixed in with the smoke from the fires being directed at the Democrats in California.
     
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  5. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    It was warned years ago that California was setting itself up to be a fire disaster with many of its environmental laws. Much of the work that is done in other areas to mitigate the threat of fires is prevented in California by environmental laws apparently. I was told that some of the brush areas that should be cleared cannot be due to the fact that it is the habitat of endangered or threatened species. Many areas of California that shouldn't have been built up were subdivided for profit and lifestyle as well. In many areas, it is probably just catching up on fires that should have burned off in small fires that were suppressed or prevented. and that has allowed large ab mounts of fuel to accumulate. I think that is what Trump may be referring to , as controlled burns can't be done in many areas there due to population and environmental court battles. It eventually ends up in disaster, as was noted in the Yellowstone Fire of years ago. Downed power lines apparently ignited many of these fires, but fuel conditions are what makes them bad.
     
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  6. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I do know that some areas have controlled burns...Ive seen them myself.

    Aside from all the political reasons, California is always almost in drought conditions and then add the Santa Ana winds to the mix...all it takes is a spark I'm guessing.

    When I drive to my daughter's all I see for miles and miles is brown grass or shrubs...especially Pacheco Pass.

    That's where Ive seen the most controlled burns also.
     
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  7. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Very Well-Known Member
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    There are some controlled burns, but I think much of what is burning is where none have taken place. You are closer to the action than I am, however, so you should know.
     
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  8. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Veteran Member
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    So how far away from Calabasas and Hidden hills are ya CC? ...there was me thinking you lived among the Rich and famous... ... ;)
     
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  9. Hal Pollner

    Hal Pollner Very Well-Known Member
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    We never have to worry about fires, because we live in.....The High Desert!

    (Shown are our Daily Papers)
    Hal
    002.JPG 627.jpg
     
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  10. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    That's south of me....I'm in central CA.
     
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  11. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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  12. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Veteran Member
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    I knew California was big but it's hard for us to understand the huge enormity of any of the states in the USA ..I was only pulling your leg about living near the rich and famous, but I didn't realise it was that far. For us a 3 and a half our journey would take us from down here in the south to the North ...
     
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  13. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Actually a 3 hr drive is not much in California...I think the length of the state is at least 850 miles.
     
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  14. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Veteran Member
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    NO , because you're roads are so much wider than ours, and so therefore the journey probably doesn't seem as long as it would here... In Spain I can drive for 800 km's in 6 hours... it would take more than double that here..
     
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  15. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    Well I sure don't believe California is going to hell just because a lot of it is burning up. There is heightened disasters all around the US now days and it seems to only be increasing. Thank God it's things that are being destroyed and not all the people who thought they owned those things. Things can be replaced...people can't be.
     
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  16. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    Sadly I think at least 25 people have lost their lives so far.....could be more. :(
     
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  17. Babs Hunt

    Babs Hunt Veteran Member
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    That is sad Chrissy....but with everything that has burned up...a lot more people could have lost their lives but didn't.
     
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  18. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Greeter
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    Like most everything else, there are probably a variety of causes. Having lived in California for twelve years, I know that fires, mudslides, and droughts are all too common, but this is an unusual time of the year for forest fires.

    It's quite likely that federal and state governments have acquired far more land than they can appropriately maintain, so it might make sense to put some of that back into the private sector. Being strongly in favor of individual rights, I"m not so big on government mandating when and how I clear my own property, but I can understand that fires don't respect property lines. I don't know a lot about this part of it, but I do know that California has placed what are perhaps needless restrictions on the use of water, but whether that might play into the situation or not, I don't know.
     
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  19. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Greeter
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    It seems like California has had a whole lot of these fires in the last few years, and the drought might be part of it, but President. Trump could very well have a good point that poor management has made the situation worse than it needed to be.
    There has been a lot of wildfires all over the western United States ; so it can’t all be the fault of California having managed their land in a poor fashion, and several places have had other possible explanations for the fires as well.
    One interesting one that I read about was from a few summers ago, and it was in Southern Idaho. They said that the actual ground was getting hotter than normal from underneath.
    One man actually died trying to rescue his dog from a pond that turned out to have almost boiling water in it. The man and his dog were out in the woods on a trail where they were used to walking, and the dog had gone on ahead and bounded into the water in the pond, and then started screaming because it was so hot.
    The owner had no idea what was wrong, and also ran into the water to try and rescue the dog.
    I think that either other hikers heard the screams and went to help, or maybe he was able to call for help on his cell before being rescued. In any case, the ground had heated up so much that what was usually a nice cool pond, was now almost boiling water.
    The hot ground in other areas was also considered as a possible cause for some of the forest fires.
    Since California is a hotbed of earthquake movements, just like southern Idaho is close to Yellowstone caldera, it is possible that this could be contributing to the excessive fires down there.

    I do think that what President Trump was thinking possibly was also about California and the sanctuary cities there, which have lost their federal aid when they became sanctuary cities. When they have forest fires, they have a disaster, and I think that qualifies them for federal help, therefore offsetting some of what they lost in federal funding.
     
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  20. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Veteran Member
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    I don't think it's an unusual time for the fires....I recall the Napa valley fires being in October of last year....I also remember it being during the college year because parents were figuring out alternate routes to take for their kids driving home for maybe Thanksgiving.

    Also...it's the winter rains that cause the mudslides where everything burnt previously.

    Actually we probably have fires all year except for the couple months we get some rain.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018 at 4:45 PM
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  21. Holly Saunders

    Holly Saunders Veteran Member
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    The whole length of the UK, is only 870 miles that's from the very tip of the west and south of England and all the way through Scotland to the very tip...however if we were to drive it would probably take 2 days..
     
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  22. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Veteran Member
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    During the years my wife and I lived in So Calif., as in Orange County, before we met and two years following, we didn't know about any fires going on in any area. We did get the Santa Ana winds, but I sure don't remember smelling any smoke anywhere. Those years were in the late 70's until mid 2002 (for both of us). I also remember street intersections being really flooded due to Dec/Jan rains.

    Seemed like fires never hit the Mt. Baldy, Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear Lake areas...……..but I could be wrong. I didn't watch the news back then, like I do now.
     
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  23. Hoot Crawford

    Hoot Crawford Well-Known Member
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    I think we should concentrate our efforts on getting these monster fires under control, then we can all point fingers at the people who are the problem. Trump is overplaying his hand on this tragedy
     
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  24. Harry Havens

    Harry Havens Very Well-Known Member
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    While it might be great to wait awhile before placing blame, it actually began immediately.
    An example:
    "
    The stock has halved in value in the past 7 days, the company has extended its line of credit to the max and is expecting a $15B hit, which will likely wind up on the customers bills. I am not sure what the company could do differently, unless shutting off power when conditions are dry and winds accelerate... or everytime the Santa Ana winds kick up. Apparently PG&E considered doing just that 1 week ago. They didn't.

    Suggesting an alternative way of doing business seems to indicate either
    • Shutting off the power during significant danger period.
    • Stronger infrastructure, which requires significant investment and therefore significant rate increases.
    • Everyone completely going off the grid. (Even if 10% do not, the problems would still exist).
     
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  25. Tom Galty

    Tom Galty Well-Known Member
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    I am in the UK.... BUT

    On my local Radio in the UK this was asked to an American.

    His reply was that the State and the house owners did not clean their scrub/undergrowth over the years

    The States excuse was Conservation and endangered speices lived in the undergrowth.

    Which meant they did not want to spend any money to keep people safe
     
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