Arizona House Passes Bill Banning Transgender Female Athletes From Participating In School Sports

Discussion in 'Politics & Government' started by Beth Gallagher, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    Well. Some common sense has been demonstrated in Arizona. Wonder how long before the appeals begin??

    From ABC News...

    "The Arizona House of Representatives passed a new bill that if signed into law would ban transgender female athletes from participating in school sports. The "Save Women's Sports Act," introduced by Republican Rep. Nancy Barto, would require interscholastic and intramural sports sponsored by educational institutions to explicitly designate sports as for males or females based on a persons' biological sex.

    Barto cited the biological differences between males and females from lung capacity and muscle mass to testosterone levels that she said give men "an undeniable physical advantage over women in sports."

    "That is why we have separated male and female sports. And that is why women have been so successful in achieving greatness on the field, and all the benefits that go with it," Barto continued. "What has changed is Interscholastic policies allowing biological males identifying as females to compete on women's teams."

    The bill would apply to K-12, community college and universities' female teams
     
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  2. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Be all you can be but not on my playing field I guess.

    Personally, I agree with all the lawsuits by “real” female athletes who simply want a level playing field. Transgendered males with male genitalia should indeed compete with other biological males and leave the female athletes to compete against their biological peers but a thought just struck me.

    Up until the Obama administration, which gave a lot of attention to transgenders, there wasn’t a problem with it but what we did have a problem with was females who wanted to play traditionally boys and men’s sports. After a bit of frustrating attention getting, some females prevailed and showed that they could indeed compete in boy’s baseball, football and basketball and some schools allowed the intermixing of the sexes in intramural and school competitions with other schools.
    As a note: Generally speaking though, I believe the practice is only apparent when there isn’t a female football, baseball or basketball program at the school but still, doesn’t that set some kind of precedent?
    Not that I have ever heard of a problem with it but can males enter into sports that are almost entirely a female activity like high school or college level competitive softball?
    As abysmal a trend that it is for men to compete with and against women who are obviously biologically weaker, I would think that allowing females at any level entering into male sports would take on the same notoriety. It’s a given that males are traditionally stronger than females but then again, I know of a couple of female weightlifters that I would not compete against and I’m a big guy who can lift a lot.

    Now to second portion of my thought. It’s noted that there are many gay guys playing in male sports and in particular, male professional sports so is there something totally different about a transsexual who hasn’t actually physically transitioned? Is there some sort of barrier keeping self proclaimed transsexuals from not competing in men’s sports where gays are apparently accepted or is it that the transsexuals competing against women just can’t compete with and/ or against more athletic men?

    Jus’ thinkin’
     
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  3. Von Jones

    Von Jones Supreme Member
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    To me being 'gay' is about sexuality or men/women who desire an intimate relationship with the same sex. Electing to go the whole nine yards in becoming a transgender - man to woman or woman to man - is totally different. Transgenders want more than an intimate relationship with the same sex. They believe they can live the same life as a man/woman and some take measures to physically appear so. But... mentally I question if they really know the true nature of how it 'feels' to be or 'thinks like' the opposite sex they have chosen to become.

    In reference to the article in the OP, maybe as a man the desire to participate in that type of sport was of strong interest before the transition and continued to pursue it as a woman. So we ask, did he even consider his natural physical abilities before his transition?, Will he downplay them to 'fit in' for a lack of a better description?, What if his true nature as a male kicked in?

    The same for women transgenders.

    Same as you @Bobby Cole, just thinkin'.
     
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  4. Nancy Hart

    Nancy Hart Veteran Member
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    A whole law just for... what is it they estimate... half of 0.6% of the population? Some voters eat this stuff up. And it keeps them from thinking about important issues.

    Rep. Barto also sponsored legislation

    SB1241, "The Ban on Banning Bags." (a law against banning plastic bags)

    She is really on the forefront of major issues.
     
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  5. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    Sorry, Nancy, but in this case I totally agree with Barto. If you are a young female who has trained and worked hard to excel in sports, then get beaten by a MALE who just happens to "identify" as female...how is that fair? There needs to be some way to level the playing field for natural BIOLOGICAL females who now have to compete against males pretending to be female. You can put lipstick on it, but it's still a pig.

    And I have actually seen articles about biological males who are setting "new records" in female sports. If I were that athlete, I'd be ashamed of taking a record that truly wasn't mine. How could you possibly be proud of that "accomplishment." That would be like me racing someone in a wheelchair then gloating that I won. Some things just aren't equal and never will be.
     
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  6. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    One of the two major problems is in the definition of transgender. By definition, it doesn’t have to be a male or female who has gone the distance to redefine and modify their physical being to meet the requirements corresponding to the biological gender they wish to be. All one need do is to believe that he or she is not mentally what their outward physical appearance indicates.
    As it is in the case of K or B Jenner, he or she still is biologically a male below the belt but is taking the steps to drastically decrease male hormones and increase female hormones and from what I understand, has had breast augmentation surgery. By definition though, Jenner didn’t have to go that distance to be considered transgender.
    All one need to do is to mentally identify with the sex they believe themselves to be and Shazam Poof, that’s what a good PC society agrees to.

    Now the question goes back to the sports thing. Should a person who simply identifies with being a girl be able to participate in girl’s sports?
    Even if a guy dresses like a girl, puts on makeup like a girl and walks like a girl......he’s still biologically...a guy with all the attributes of being a guy.

    Then, what one of my questions examined was, if females are participating in predominately male sports and even if it is acknowledged that males are generally stronger and faster, why should not boys / men enter into female sports?
    Also, as an extension of that and the question I didn’t ask was, if biologically male athletes are permitted to compete with and against the girls, then why even have the distinctions / divisions in the first place?

    The whole thing to me is simply another test to see just how PC we can get. If a guy is a biological guy by all appearances,,,then he’s a guy. Same with the gals. Girls on girls teams, guys on guys teams. Simply really.
     
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  7. Von Jones

    Von Jones Supreme Member
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    @Bobby Cole we agree on the mentality of how a transgender believes themselves to be but really, how many transgender persons continue to remain physically that which they do not believe themselves to be?
     
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  8. Lois Winters

    Lois Winters Veteran Member
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    I don't feel it was ever a good idea to let girls play boys sports with the boys in the first place. Nor allowing girls in the Boy Scouts either. This entire issue has gone beyond the pale.
     
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  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    This transgendered or identifying as thing is going to spell an end to women's sports, as men who are not quite good enough to compete as men can nevertheless excel as women, and can be expected to take advantage of this, as some have already acknowledged they have done. It's not just about photo-ops and medals either, as biological men will be competing for women's sports scholarships, which will either put an end to women's sports, to the scholarships, or both.
     
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  10. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Dunno Von.
    I think you’re asking about how many transgenders actually go for sex reassignment (confirmation surgery) and to tell the truth, I can’t even find a percentage.
    Maybe most of them just live it out wondering what it would be like to be the gender they believe themselves to be.
    Again.....dunno.
     
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  11. Cody Fousnaugh

    Cody Fousnaugh Supreme Member
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    I remember when Sonny and Cher's daughter, Chastity Bono, who went great lengths to be full transgender as Chaz Bono, was on Dancing With The Stars. I didn't know what to think! Such a cute little girl and then, years later.

    Just like the super athlete, Bruce Jenner and what he became.
     
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  12. Ed Wilson

    Ed Wilson Veteran Member
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    When this gender identity thing got widespread media attention, young people in their formative years, who thought they were what the doctor saw at birth, were led to believe that their identity was an option left up to themselves. The key words in the previous sentence are "formative years". Their minds are not fully developed and this media attention is leading some down a path they otherwise would never consider.
     
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  13. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    That's true, Ed. When I was a little girl I was obsessed with being a "cowboy." I galloped for miles around the pasture on my stick horse. Shockingly, my parents didn't assume I was a transgender or any such malarkey. They just let me be a cowboy until I grew out of it. :D:D
     
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  14. Beth Gallagher

    Beth Gallagher Supreme Member
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    Excellent comment from that link:

    "The article asks us to imagine the feelings of the transgendered girl who feels comfortable playing sports. That's all well and good, but what about the feelings of the biological girl who is competing to, perhaps, win a scholarship to college and a spot on an NCAA team? Maybe their dream is to someday, compete in the Olympics. Coming in second to someone with a physiological advantage could hinder these goals. This is why steroids and other items that give someone a competitive advantage are banned in organized athletics.

    As a moderate independent who is liberal leaning with social issues, I support bills such as this."
     
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  15. Lois Winters

    Lois Winters Veteran Member
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    This is true, Beth. Children really do not identify with sexual orientation per se. We play with the kids who are available to us and that's exactly what we identify with. There were all boys in my neighborhood so, for all intents and purposes, I became, "one of the boys" and played baseball, mumbly peg and the like. As I approached age 10 or 11, my take on boys began to change drastically and all that stopped. One usually outgrows all that as hormones begin to kick in. Now, Bruce Jenner who was an Olympic champ and proceeded to transition to his feminine side, in my opinion would be totally out of line if he decided he wished to participate in women's sports. No way. It's the guy's choice, so live with the consequences. Same with females. Not satisfied with your gender? Go blame your dad and leave the rest of the world alone. Better yet, form your own sports groups.
     
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