Angels

Discussion in 'Faith & Religion' started by Ken Anderson, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Hedi Mitchell

    Hedi Mitchell Supreme Member
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    I struggle with this question. Where are the angles when a child is harmed?
    Where are they as a person is ungoing unspeakable torture and murder?
    Why are some saved by angles and others are not?
    Please do not use the Free Willl line.
    I knowI have been spared several times-why I have no idea...saved by God or angles I am not sure.
    Some are special others not so much?
     
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  2. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Senior Staff
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    I think that this is a question that many of us have asked ourselves, @Gloria Mitchell . If God can stop all of this, why did he allow the needless slaughter of innocent humans (and animals) to go on for so many thousands of years ? Why are some people miraculously saved from harm, and others are not.
    We do not know, at least i have no good answer for you. But like others here have reported, I have had times in my life when I should have been dead, or hurt bad, and God has protected me.
    Sometimes, we still go through whatever the thing is that is happening, but God takes us through it and not saves us out of it.

    I have written before about the bad car accident that I was in many years ago. I was with my ex-husband, and driving a tiny Yugo, when we were rear ended by a drunk driver in a 3/4 ton truck with steel racks on top, and he was doing well over 100+ mph.
    He became locked onto my Yugo, and pushed both of us over a steep bank. I was sure that I was dying when this happened, and the car rolled end over end, then side over side, and ended up upside down, with the truck on top of us.

    We were on the I-5 freeway near Seattle, and there were truckers on the road who saw the accident happen and the called police and came down to help us.
    The car was mangled up completely, and I know that neither of us should have survived, but we both crawled out of that upside down car and walked up the bank to the highway.
    If I had been even 5 minutes earlier or later that night, I would have missed the drunk driver completely. It seemed to me that it would have been just as easy to have had that happen as to have me go through the crash and survive when i should have died. I have no explanation, but I believe that angels were there , protecting us.

    This only shows part of the Yugo, but the whole car was badly mashed up.

    753BEE91-6CDA-4EFA-977D-38B1383AAA4B.jpeg
     
    #17
  3. Hedi Mitchell

    Hedi Mitchell Supreme Member
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    Yikes...yep divine intervention on that..
     
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    I don't know that angels regularly intercede on our behalf, but I do believe that God intercedes from time to time, whether through an angel or otherwise. However, most of the time I think that nature is allowed to take its course. If I walk out in front of a moving truck, I believe that whether I live or die is more likely to be in the hands of the truck driver, who may or may not be able to avoid striking me, or in the hands of the medical people who pick up the pieces. God may intercede but I am not so prideful as to believe that I've given Him much of a reason to. It is my opinion that God intercedes when He wants to, and for His purposes, not mine. I might pray for Him to help me out in traffic, but I doubt that He does. Probably, I shouldn't close my eyes in prayer.
     
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  5. Bobby Cole

    Bobby Cole Supreme Member
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    Along that vein of thought, when my dad had terminal cancer throughout his body and was healed, he set out to tell everyone he met what God did.
    I’ve written about it a few times but my dad became a witness with a testimony and all for the Glory of God.

    Now, I questioned the whole thing for a while then it hit me. God had a plan and my dad fulfilled that plan by not only turning his life around but helping others make the right decision as well.
    God could have picked any of His children he wanted but He chose someone whom everyone knew was totally against religion of any kind, a self centered womanizing Atheist who was undoubtedly going to Hell.

    Toward the end of his life, dad believed in angels and he often recalled that his sister said she saw one at the foot of her bed when she was younger. He knew for whatever reason that someone was always there to guide him and reassure him that everything was alright. When his time came, he told the doctors to let him die. Not because he was in pain or anything but I guess he figured that if God needed him some more then He would heal that damaged heart valve.
    Dunno if he ever saw a real angel or he just imagined them but either way, he was indeed comforted at the end.
     
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  6. Joseph Carl

    Joseph Carl Very Well-Known Member
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    Lon, catching up on this thread, allow me to put your "hearsay" challenge to rest. First, witness testimony itself is not hearsay. Hearsay is generally witness testimony of another's point of view. It is second hand information vs direct knowledge. Witness testimony of one's own experience is in fact direct evidence, which is not only relevant for court as Ken noted, but also the source of much of our history books and knowledge. Everything said or written of course is not to be blindly accepted as true, but to automatically discredit any information merely because it originated from a witness testimony would be foolish.

    Beth, as long as you repeatedly misinterpret and attack what you think I say, I'll feel no need to clarify or defend myself, since your paraphrases and conclusions are not mine. I trust others can see that.

    Ken, you're right about interpreting Paul's judgement discourse in Romans 2. He was not condemning all judgement of others, but rather hypocrisy in judgement. The context of the chapter reveals that his real point on judgement was that we're all guilty of sin and in need of a savior. Unfortunately both believers and unbelievers take this scripture out of context and misuse it frequently to accuse others of being wrongly judgemental - usually when they don't like what they hear. They don't understand that Jesus was extremely judgemental in pointing out right from wrong and calls for his followers to do the same. If anyone here is really interested in this point, there's an excellent video sermon below on this topic.

    Don, there are undoubtedly false beliefs out there about angels, but the Christian's Biblical view definitely has them as created beings, not eternal like God. Here's clear scriptural support for that conclusion:

    For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (Colossians 1:16-17)

    Gloria, we all struggle with the issue of pain and suffering in the world, and it's the #1 reason older adults reject God (with belief in evolution being the #1 reason for the younger generation). There are no easy or satisfying answers, but there are good answers that clarify "some" of the circumstances. I recognize that answering the "why" question won't take away the pain from losing a loved one, but if anyone wants reference to a few good articles or videos on this subject, let me know. A few hours of research on the topic won't alleviate one's discontent with the messed up world, but it can help harmonize the God vs pain and suffering dilemma a little bit.

    To all others who believe in angels and have real life experiences to back it up, I would only add one point to consider. It does seem evident that supernatural forces are interceding for people in today's world, but unless you clearly see an angelic being doing the work, I'd be giving my prayer of thanks to God first. Remember that God rules the world and our lives. The angels help and can even be thanked when appropriate, but we don't want to give them more glory than God.

     
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  7. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    I would still hold angels to not be "things" whatever their source, and I don't have the faith in Paul that you do. Paul was a Pharisee and Jesus repeatedly denounced Pharisees. Paul was a teacher addressing specific issues in specific churches or locations. I don't believe him to be a great theologian. He was a missionary.
     
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  8. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Our understanding of Christianity depends on Paul, as he was responsible for more of the New Testament than any other author, and his writings deal more directly with New Testament theology, as opposed to history, than most.
     
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  9. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Supreme Member
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    I believe that the maker of the universe would probably get some assistance from others. So believing in Angles is not a big stretch. There is an angle looking after me as I have been placed in paradise while my old country becomes hell.
     
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  10. Shirley Martin

    Shirley Martin Supreme Member
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    When I hear someone say something like that, I always have to wonder... why didn't the angel stop the truck before it hit you? It could have easily done so.

    Someone says, "I only had a broken leg, a couple of fractured ribs, a broken pelvis, and a mild concussion. I'm sure there was an angel looking after me." Why didn't the angel prevent the accident from happening?
     
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  11. John Brunner

    John Brunner Senior Staff
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    Why don't angels protect children? Why doesn't God intervene?
    Some die in the most horrific of ways by the hand of others.
     
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  12. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    That became the Protestant viewpoint, but Catholics and Orthodox Christians think differently. Protestants picked it up thinking that the Letters of Paul were the earliest parts of the New Testament, but from what I have read, Mark was written at about the same time as Paul, and Paul never met Jesus(except on the road to Damascus), while the author of Mark (perhaps John Mark, a part time companion to Paul) perhaps did meet him. In any case, the Synoptic Gospels follow traditions that were in circulations at the same time as Paul's writing. I have a different view of Paul than many, as I have stated before. Matthew was originally thought to be the earliest Gospel written also, and that is why it is cited most in early church documents and is why it appears first in the listing of the New Testament, but that is now known almost certainly not to be true, and Mark is now thought to be the first written, since mark didn't know about the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, thus dating it prior to A.D. 72 or so.
     
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  13. Logan Bellgamin

    Logan Bellgamin Well-Known Member
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    Angels!!!!!

    From the chorus of Abba's, "I have a dream" ----
    Code:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6eaKG78Yec
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The Bible says:
    Only God is self-existent: <Hayah asher Hayah> "I AM that I AM"
    Angels were created by God


     
    #28
  14. Joseph Carl

    Joseph Carl Very Well-Known Member
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    John, you ask: "Why don't angels protect children? Why doesn't God intervene?"

    First, we should allow that God does intervene to protect children in many circumstances - probably far more often than what we see or realize. The excellent 2016 movie "Miracles From Heaven" is one fine example of this.

    Second, from a Christian perspective, we can take comfort in knowing that leaving this broken world for a new perfect body and heavenly paradise is a blessing, not a tragedy.

    And third, for those of us left here to be hurt or challenged in all kinds of painful ways, we must understand that our purpose here is not to just live happy, comfortable, easy lives with no problems. God gives us time and exposure to the world for a reason, and that includes growing our character and souls. This world, with it's barrage of difficulties, pain, and suffering, is actually an ideal environment for doing that. The temporary and fragile nature of life here helps teach us faith, hope, and love in preparation for the real, eternal life to come.

    Understanding this theological concept cannot negate the pain we feel or see, particularly with personal circumstances and experiences. But, it can give a believer strength to better manage the death, pain, and suffering we encounter in this earthly life. It should also give the unbeliever pause, seeing that a broken world does not justify denying Gods existence.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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