Sexual Abuse In The Catholic Church

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Chrissy Cross, Aug 17, 2018.

  1. Yvonne Smith

    Yvonne Smith Senior Staff
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    I absolutely agree with your conclusion, @Chrissy Cross . Just letting priests marry is only going to solve a small bit of the problem, because that is not the actual cause of it.
    The fact is, human predators that actively prey on small, innocent children will search out ways to be involved in places where children are readily available.
    It is not just the Catholic Church that has this problem, just that it has been made public and in the news more often. And like @Don Alaska pointed out, the Catholic Church is so very large that it seems like the percentage is higher there.
    I remember reading some time ago that the Big Brother organization had the same problem, and so do the the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.

    If a predator wants to have access to children, then they will seek out any kind of organization and become involved, just for the easy access it avails them.
    So, in my thoughts, it is not that good people became priests (or Big Brothers) and then became child molesters, but that they were already doing that , and joined the church or organization to have the availability of being closely involved with vulnerable children.
     
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  2. Patsy Faye

    Patsy Faye Supreme Member
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    Exactly right in my opinion
     
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  3. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    When the NAMBLA (National Man-Boy Love Association) recommendations and membership became publicized a number of years ago, the Catholic Priesthood wasn't on the list I saw, as it required years of education and a LOT of commitment. The Pedophilia recommendations were #1) Public School teachers, followed by Scout leaders, and athletic trainers and coaches. Quite a number of homosexual men became priests after Vatican II because the standards for priests were lowered, and it was a good refuge from the scorn of society. Even if/when they were "outted", they were still bound to the oath of chastity. My experience with priests is that they often tend to remain spoiled children since they have no family responsibilities and their every need for life (housing, food, medical, etc.) is always provided. Most of them never have to grow up unless they have been married in the past or are one of the rare married priests.
     
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  4. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    On a related topic, I predicted many years ago, in the early days of the gay rights movement, that we might live to see a time when pedophilia is normalized. No, I am not equating the two; gay people are not necessarily pedophiles, but the movement is the same, and the pedophiles are taking the same steps that the gay rights movement took, and are getting the predictable results. It is no longer considered to be a mental disorder unless the pedophile is bothered by the condition. People lobbying for it are often couching it in the language of age discrimination or the rights of a child, and they don't seem to be automatically placed on a sex offender's watch list.

    Many in the gay rights movement were initially opposed to adding transexuals to the protected list, but they later accepted them into the alphabet string, and I expect they'll accept a "P" to the list as well, although they'll probably find a friendlier-sounding term than "pedophile."

    Many of those, particularly on the left, who are seemingly outraged over the Catholic Church scandals are so because Catholic are Christians and they will never pass up an opportunity to be outraged over something involving Christians.
     
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  5. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    The information you revealed is disgusting, at best, revolting or worse.
    Frank
     
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  6. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Agreed, but I think it's going to happen.
     
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  7. Frank Sanoica

    Frank Sanoica Supreme Member
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    @Ken Anderson
    Sign-makers will quickly produce and offer up for sale banners proclaiming, "LEGALIZE PEDOPHILIA!"
     
    #22
  8. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Supreme Member
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    Trump in December wrote a presidential [mandate] to declare they would confiscate all money from anyone to does acts against humanity like child trafficking pedophilia. What would happen if the US department of Justice took over the churches and when after the Vatican. The Catholic church is in a bad situation right now as Cardinals all around the world are leaving the church or being prosecuted for crimes.
    [mandate] because I could not think of the right word
     
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  9. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    That would be a bad idea, I think.
     
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  10. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Supreme Member
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    The Vatican has been in bad think since they gave passports to high up Germans to escape in WW2. There has been one scandal after another covered up by the Vatican. They need a way to shut them down. Maybe take away their protective status and let people sue the for damages. Let the people who have been damaged get revenge
     
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  11. Ken Anderson

    Ken Anderson Senior Staff
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    Nevertheless, we do have a First Amendment that guarantees freedom of religion, and the actions of a few - albeit prolific - Catholic priests wouldn't be sufficient reason to deny constitutional protections to all of one of the country's largest religions. Yes, Clinton did it to the Branch Davidians early in his first term, and for lesser reasons, but they were a small sect that was already marginalized before the government further marginalized and demonized them. I think Trump would be impeached in a hot second if he were to go after the Catholic Church as a whole. Note: when I say "few," I mean as compared to the number of Catholic priests who have not been guilty of such crimes.

    Oh, the government can and should go after those who are guilty, as well as those who covered for them, and that may include some people who are high up in the Catholic organizational structure but to go after the entire Church, that would be a mistake.

    If Trump were to go after the entire Church, all of the liberals in government and the media who are now gleefully pontificating and reporting on the Church scandals would suddenly throw their support behind the Church and against Trump, and the constitutionalists would defend the First Amendment.

    The most important actions that can, and should, be taken should be made by Catholics, who should demand reform.
     
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  12. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    I just finished listening to a commentary by a Catholic writer about the case in Pennsylvania. He claimed it was the worst crisis for the Catholic Church since the Reformation and requires the same drastic action. He pointed out that according to Canon Law, you don't have to be a Priest to be a Cardinal, and that the Pope is doing the same thing that happened with the Cardinal Law scandal in Boston and that is not enough. He proposed that the Pope start appointing lay Cardinals as it would change the culture at the top. This could lead to a lay Pope, something that hasn't happened for centuries but totally within the realm of possibility. If any of you have read a book entitled The Vicar of Christ (a fiction novel based in the U.S. Supreme Court and the Vatican), you will know what can happen. The circumstances outlined in that book mirror some of what is happening now with the Court and the Church, but it is a somewhat dry read.

    The details of the indictments in Pennsylvania are staggering, and are seldom published because they are so graphic, and they are centered mostly on the Church in Pittsburgh @Chrissy Cross so you may know some of the characters involved. I don't think Trump could prosecute the Church as a whole, but he could go after the individuals involved and they should be open to civil damages, as I don't think there is a statute of limitations on civil suits. The real bad guy in the entire thing appears to be the Cardinal Archbishop of Washington D,C., who was Bishop of the Pittsburgh Diocese during the time covered by the indictments. He may have been a party in the entire thing, but he certainly covered it up and lied to the commission set up 15 years ago or so that investigated the priest-pedophilia scandal at that time.

    It has been brought up that not every pedophile is homosexual, and, while that is true, the majority of pedophiles have homosexual tendencies, sometimes suppressed for years or decades. As I wrote earlier, Vatican II lowered the standards for priests and allowed people into the priesthood who wouldn't have been permitted into seminary in earlier years. While some of the accusations in Pittsburgh pre-date Vatican II, most of them have been since then and the standards of the priesthood and the oversight of priests has been historically lax in the 1960s and the 1970s. Only since the previous scandal has oversight been more strict, and much of the "crackdown" and Safe Environment oversight has been concentrated on the lay volunteers, not the priests.
     
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  13. Martin Alonzo

    Martin Alonzo Supreme Member
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    I think Ken we are not going after religion but after the corruption at the top. like you don't want to be with out a government but when it is corrupt it needs changing. Leaving the corruption alone will never fix the problem. It needs to be exposed and then either the government through the justice system or let the people deal with it.
     
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  14. Chrissy Cross

    Chrissy Cross Supreme Member
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    I went to Resurrection Catholic school in the late 50's @Don Alaska in Pittsburgh

    I also went to Our Lady of Loretta Church and catechism classes when we moved in 1961 to a different neighborhood...also in Pittsburgh.

    Went to Our lady of Mercy for second grade in Chicago...my father had a job for a year there.

    That was the year of that big fire at Our Lady of Angels school in Chicago....many children died.

    Even if I read the names they wouldn't ring a bell even if I knew of them....it was so long ago.

    I remember the very mean nuns more clearly....their names and faces.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  15. Don Alaska

    Don Alaska Supreme Member
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    I haven't researched where the people involved in the scandal were based as it wouldn't mean anything to me, but I believe you can find their names and faces on the web if you search and are interested.
     
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